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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 14:57:38 GMT
I'm becoming more and more convinced with what I've seen this season that our problem isn't the players in midfield at all, it's our entire mentality without the ball. Kagawa and Cleverley have been really good in both games, Ando played well at the weekend. With the ball. When we didn't have possession, not a one of them really went and got in the face of whoever oppo player had it, just dropped right off into our own half. Even trying to deal with Dembele's running, they sort of ran beside him. Previously, I've always blamed the players for lacking, but Kagawa is nothing like that, at least he wasn't for Dortmund. Cleverley generally wouldn't have een like that at Watford or Wigan. Ando didn't pay that way in his first season. I'm worried all these players are being instructed to defend that way. On the positive, if it is tactics, we don't need to sign anyone just change the mentality. Or the assistant.This passive shielding shite started with the current coaches. |
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majorred
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 15:45:47 GMT
I like Cleverley and think he has been excellent this season so far, but I can't get the running image of Fellaini bullying us at Goodison last week out of my head. I guess I feel that Cleverley could be a natural successor to Carrick in a couple of years, until then he would be rotated and given game time against the 'lesser' sides and in cup games.
I'm happy enough with what we have at the minute to be fair, but wouldn't be adverse to Dembele coming in. If Fellaini gave our midfield a hard time with his physique, what will Yaya do? Dembele wouldn't be brushed aside so easy - and he can play a bit.
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Post by Stew on Aug 27, 2012 17:50:04 GMT
Is this now being percieved as Cleverley's fault? Most of he time on Saturday Anderson was the one Dembele went past, not Cleverley from what I could see. As to how we'll deal with Toure? Watch a dvd of what Joe Allen did yesterday. He weighs about 10 stone by the looks of it and did a fine job. Cleverely is just as goo a player so if he's given the job he can do it. Seem to remember him doing a pretty similar job in the 2nd half of last years Charity Shield.
I'd like Dembele at Utd. Pretty sure i said it after watching him put Gerrard on his arse a few times during the friendly international. But it won't be at the expense of Cleverely. To me it looks like Fergie rates him higher than quite a few people on this board.
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majorred
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 18:46:04 GMT
You're jumping the gun there mate, I like Cleverley (as I stated) and think he has started the season off really well. I think we could be doing with a more physical presence in midfield, be it at the expense of Carrick or Cleverley. I'm suggesting Cleverley as Carrick has more experience and was arguably our best player last season. It's a long season with lots of games, it's not like I'm suggesting he be omitted from the squad entirely. I've no idea where you get the notion that "It's all Cleverley's fault" though, it certainly wasn't from me.
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majorred
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 18:48:20 GMT
stewart1971, if you'd like to see Dembele at the club, where do you suggest he fits in?
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Post by jimbonda on Aug 27, 2012 18:53:30 GMT
to chuck my two pence in, i'd want him to play right in there next to carrick. i'd want that strength and athleticism to do a bit around the edge of our box and then power forwards.
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majorred
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 18:58:55 GMT
That would be my way of thinking too Jim. And like I previously mentioned, I see Clev as a direct replacement for Carrick when the time comes. He'll get plenty of minutes throughout the season to keep him interested.
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Post by Stew on Aug 27, 2012 19:00:03 GMT
Fair enough Majorred, wasn't aming that at you. I think he would fit in nicely in any of the formations we've tried so far, alongside Carrck in a 4-4-2 or with Carrick and Clevs in a 3. He'd be a really handy player to have and his contract situation means 10 mill would probably get him.
Anderson would be the one to worry most if he arrived I think.
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majorred
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 19:07:28 GMT
Yeah mate, it really is make or break for Ando anyhow this season. With the ginger prince and Giggs likely putting the slippers on next year, a move now or in January for Dembele is a real possibility. I say that on the grounds we are actually interested in him.
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Post by jimbonda on Aug 27, 2012 19:14:45 GMT
Yeah mate, it really is make or break for Ando anyhow this season. and this is why i think fergie resisted the temptation to get dembele in. |
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majorred
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 19:24:18 GMT
Yeah mate, it really is make or break for Ando anyhow this season. and this is why i think fergie resisted the temptation to get dembele in. I think you're right. SAF has maybe looked at potential rivals for Dembele's signature too, the likes of Madrid, City, PSG and Chelsea. They have all made investment in that area, leaving hopefully a one horse race when his contract is up and a fee isn't required. |
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Post by Coogie on Aug 27, 2012 20:45:50 GMT
what is dembeles contract situation? last year?
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majorred
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 21:00:25 GMT
what is dembeles contract situation? last year? Yes |
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Post by fletchabey on Aug 27, 2012 21:17:46 GMT
and this is why i think fergie resisted the temptation to get dembele in. I think you're right. SAF has maybe looked at potential rivals for Dembele's signature too, the likes of Madrid, City, PSG and Chelsea. They have all made investment in that area, leaving hopefully a one horse race when his contract is up and a fee isn't required. We don't really operate like that, compare how many 1 year remaining deals we've made as opposed to picking up on a free. Once the contracts up he's free to take any offer from anyone, if were the only ones to arrange a fee before that we're the only ones to get to talk. A smaller fee is somewhat countered by the risk of signing on fee's and big contract offers. I don't think Ando should be any reason to not sign someone. Giggs and Scholes could very well retire next year. Also its not like those 2 would offer any problems if we got to a position where we could phase them out. Fletcher is still a hope, but massive questions about what level of fitness he can get, how good he'll be able to pick up his form and whether he'll relapse (again). If anything I'd see Dembele taking his spot. We were burnt with hope for Hargreaves waiting far to long for him. As I said before, Dembele looks a good all around footballer, but what he offers different is some real physicality, some strength and height. We could just do with that depth. More importantly he still offers some good attacking ability too which would fit us. To me it seems a no brainer, he should be available for a reasonable fee (unless there's some hidden extension or something) and is a good age and prem experienced. If he was a winger or striker you'd know Fergie would take a punt on him in a similar situation, lets just try a punt on central midfield for once. |
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majorred
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 21:32:27 GMT
I think you're right. SAF has maybe looked at potential rivals for Dembele's signature too, the likes of Madrid, City, PSG and Chelsea. They have all made investment in that area, leaving hopefully a one horse race when his contract is up and a fee isn't required. We don't really operate like that, compare how many 1 year remaining deals we've made as opposed to picking up on a free. Once the contracts up he's free to take any offer from anyone, if were the only ones to arrange a fee before that we're the only ones to get to talk. A smaller fee is somewhat countered by the risk of signing on fee's and big contract offers. I don't think Ando should be any reason to not sign someone. Giggs and Scholes could very well retire next year. Also its not like those 2 would offer any problems if we got to a position where we could phase them out. Fletcher is still a hope, but massive questions about what level of fitness he can get, how good he'll be able to pick up his form and whether he'll relapse (again). If anything I'd see Dembele taking his spot. We were burnt with hope for Hargreaves waiting far to long for him. As I said before, Dembele looks a good all around footballer, but what he offers different is some real physicality, some strength and height. We could just do with that depth. More importantly he still offers some good attacking ability too which would fit us. To me it seems a no brainer, he should be available for a reasonable fee (unless there's some hidden extension or something) and is a good age and prem experienced. If he was a winger or striker you'd know Fergie would take a punt on him in a similar situation, lets just try a punt on central midfield for once. You're right. My line of thinking was that of all other clubs who could offer him what United can, they have already strengthened in that department. One club I didn't think of is Spurs, they could well be on to him with the Modric money. |
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