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Post by Bestie on Aug 27, 2012 19:47:01 GMT
Rooney's control is shit at times, genuinely woeful. His passing a atrocious at times as well.
Too often than a player who is world class would.
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Post by Stew on Aug 27, 2012 20:02:32 GMT
Definition of World Class is obviously completely arbitrary but I use a gauge as top 5 players in their position in the world. Don't know why, seems about right. Is Vidic one of the top 5 centre halves in the world? Undoubtedly. Is Tony Valencia one of the top 5 right wingers in the world? Pretty close I think, can't think of too many ahead of him. Was Evra in say the years 2006-2009? The best in fact. Is Wayne? Hard to call. On form then he is without much debate IMHO. The issue for me is, can you allow a caveat of 'in form?" Aren't world class players supposed to have insanely high standards? You see Wayne against say Chelsea regularly, Arsenal all the time and he is outstanding (particularly against the Rents, you can put the house on him having a major impact against them, champs league final aside and he was injured) Then you see him against Liverpool and Everton away and it's almost like playing with 10 men as he is worse than useless. Then again he was head and shoulders our best player against Barca in Wembley.
He's a bit of an enigma is our Wayne. But he's our enigma and will almost certainly end up as the highest scorer in Utd's history.
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Post by reddub on Aug 27, 2012 20:02:32 GMT
Some world class players' work rate can be shit at times- nowhere near Rooney's grafting for the cause.
Some world class players' heading can be atrocious at times aswell- not a patch on Rooney in the air, and some world class strikers' general strike rate is nowhere near Rooneys.
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Post by ginger18legend on Aug 27, 2012 21:35:30 GMT
This isn't a topic of debate for me. Wayne Rooney is world class. When players like Messi say they would welcome Rooney to Barcelona, that speaks volumes in itself.
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Post by fletchabey on Aug 27, 2012 22:01:29 GMT
Rooney's control is shit at times, genuinely woeful. His passing a atrocious at times as well. Too often than a player who is world class would. For me the crap control is always a telegraph for when he's off form. The 2 are hand in hand. Noticed it time and again over the last few years when he's off form he'll do that chipped control thing, a few inches off the ground. It certainly not all the time or even the majority though. In form though he's strong technically and his passing range is second to only Scholes in our squad (well maybe Kagawa but I'll judge that after a few more apps yet  ) This is whole 'easy to criticise' thing I mentioned earlier. Yeh we can nail him for a poor few games but hes still for the other 75% our best and most important player. I don't want to get drawn in the semantics of 'World Class' which is tiresome, but there's no way in hell I'd trade him for Torres or Ibrahimovic or Villa or Gomez. People have been get all frothy over RVP who only narrowly outscored Rooney last season (in an average form year for him) and Rooneys absolutely annihilated him in any year before that. |
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Post by Bestie on Aug 27, 2012 22:20:37 GMT
Rooney's control is shit at times, genuinely woeful. His passing a atrocious at times as well. Too often than a player who is world class would. For me the crap control is always a telegraph for when he's off form. The 2 are hand in hand. Noticed it time and again over the last few years when he's off form he'll do that chipped control thing, a few inches off the ground. It certainly not all the time or even the majority though. In form though he's strong technically and his passing range is second to only Scholes in our squad (well maybe Kagawa but I'll judge that after a few more apps yet ) Second only to Scholes. . . and Kagawa, and Berbatov, and De Gea, and Carrick, and so forth. Rooney gets a lot more credit than he's due in a lot of areas because of what he used to be able to do. A lot of stock is put into his goals output, which is good, but sometimes like his general play is downright detrimental. |
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majorred
United Reserve Player
plg%%Wazza%%
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Post by majorred on Aug 27, 2012 22:31:19 GMT
For me the crap control is always a telegraph for when he's off form. The 2 are hand in hand. Noticed it time and again over the last few years when he's off form he'll do that chipped control thing, a few inches off the ground. It certainly not all the time or even the majority though. In form though he's strong technically and his passing range is second to only Scholes in our squad (well maybe Kagawa but I'll judge that after a few more apps yet ) Second only to Scholes. . . and Kagawa, and Berbatov, and De Gea, and Carrick, and so forth. Rooney gets a lot more credit than he's due in a lot of areas because of what he used to be able to do. A lot of stock is put into his goals output, which is good, but sometimes like his general play is downright detrimental. He wouldn't get a game for the Glens. |
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Post by fletchabey on Aug 27, 2012 22:44:22 GMT
For me the crap control is always a telegraph for when he's off form. The 2 are hand in hand. Noticed it time and again over the last few years when he's off form he'll do that chipped control thing, a few inches off the ground. It certainly not all the time or even the majority though. In form though he's strong technically and his passing range is second to only Scholes in our squad (well maybe Kagawa but I'll judge that after a few more apps yet ) Second only to Scholes. . . and Kagawa, and Berbatov, and De Gea, and Carrick, and so forth. Rooney gets a lot more credit than he's due in a lot of areas because of what he used to be able to do. A lot of stock is put into his goals output, which is good, but sometimes like his general play is downright detrimental. Maybe Carrick on his best days with an adventurous mood but the rest, nope. Rooney can ping the ball around better than anyone but Scholes mostly. I've seen you say it a few time before that he sucks at passing (which is not the same as hitting the occasional wayward pass) and thought 'eh?'. His assist stats over the years are also very good and consistent. Anyway i'm not sure if there's any useful stats on this issue, but i'll keep an eye on him in future and see if he's dramatically regressed in his passing when hes in normal form. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 22:52:31 GMT
His cross field 40 yard balls are superb, time and again he find his man.
His through balls to a striker making a run off a defender, which is the main job of a player playing in the hole where he wants to play, are 9 times out of 10, shocking. He routinely passes straight to a defender, to the keeper, or out for a goal kick. Or dallies for half an hour on the ball waiting for a defender to come round his side and take it off him, which also happens several times a match, every match.
I'm not a critic of his, just do not think he has the game to play in the hole, he is now a finisher, let Kagawa play in the creative position and have Rooney in the box waiting to score, 85 (I think) goals in the last 3 seasons? We know he can finish, and he gets assists by pulling wide and sticking a cross in, but the overall creative playmaker, ala Cantona or Sheringham, he is not.
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Post by fletchabey on Aug 27, 2012 23:19:26 GMT
I'm not arguing he has the finest through balls or anything, as I said range of passing. I agree though Kagawa has better qualities for what we need in the hole. Though if we call Rooney an in the hole player, well its quite phenomenal he scored 34 from there. Its not quite accurate I think, he's more of an orthodox striker who just happens to drop deep to keep play ticking over with his complete lack of passing ability  Kagawa will provide a more steady link with midfield though and we can change our style for the better to adapt to that. He wont give us 35 a season though. |
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Post by Bestie on Aug 28, 2012 8:52:11 GMT
His cross field 40 yard balls are superb, time and again he find his man.
His through balls to a striker making a run off a defender, which is the main job of a player playing in the hole where he wants to play, are 9 times out of 10, shocking. He routinely passes straight to a defender, to the keeper, or out for a goal kick. Or dallies for half an hour on the ball waiting for a defender to come round his side and take it off him, which also happens several times a match, every match.I'm not a critic of his, just do not think he has the game to play in the hole, he is now a finisher, let Kagawa play in the creative position and have Rooney in the box waiting to score, 85 (I think) goals in the last 3 seasons? We know he can finish, and he gets assists by pulling wide and sticking a cross in, but the overall creative playmaker, ala Cantona or Sheringham, he is not. Precisely. Rooney can pull off the 'Hollywood' cross-field raking pass and it looks boss. But his short range passing, and popping the ball off under pressure can be very poor for a guy who is supposedly World Class. It really frustrates be sometimes, because, as fletch alluded to, Rooney apparently has (long) passing ability. He'll under or over-hit passes that you just wouldn't expect him to. majorred - Steady on mate! Maybe wouldn't get in the Blues' startin line-up ahead of Pistol Pete, but Glenturn?! |
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Post by redcase on Aug 28, 2012 8:52:54 GMT
soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/21046/wayne-rooney?cc=4716A quick look at that should squash this debate about world class or not. Wazza is world class. I do not understand the big debate about him. As far as I know, class system in football is - Ronaldo/Messi Class World Class (rest).... So yes, Wayne is World Class. There is ZERO doubt about that.
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Post by Bestie on Aug 28, 2012 9:46:58 GMT
soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/21046/wayne-rooney?cc=4716A quick look at that should squash this debate about world class or not. Wazza is world class. I do not understand the big debate about him. As far as I know, class system in football is - Ronaldo/Messi ClassWorld Class (rest).... So yes, Wayne is World Class. There is ZERO doubt about that. #thumb# Truth. |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Aug 28, 2012 10:00:44 GMT
I've refrained from commenting too much on this recurring theme.
I'll say this though, perhaps the fact that he's played in such a variety of roles with such a variety of partners has slightly hampered his development in certain aspects. It seems certain seasons his distribution is spot on whilst he can't hit anything from outside the box and vice versa. If there were to be a list of the top 10 strikers in the world, as someone mentioned a while back, he'd sneak into the top 10, sure, but for a player considered to be the messiah of English football for the last 5 years, he often leaves one baffled in terms of his touches. Fitness, most likely, is his most crucial shortcoming if ever there was one.
When he's fit he's the talisman of the team, but when he's not he's fairly average and his touches are way below par. Par being the high standards his overall performances have set for himself. If rumors, however flimsy, are true and he doesn't want to play for the club or the manager wants him out then he'll be sold - that's the reality. Though it'd have to be big bucks and to someone abroad other than Real/Barca to make it at all feasible.
I don't want him to leave, when it comes down to it he contributes bucket-loads of goals for us annually.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Aug 28, 2012 10:06:36 GMT
Can I just say that I've really enjoyed this transfer window, if only for some of the hillarious "ITK"s that have come out to play. This one is brilliant (He has 44 650 followers): Football Agent @agent_153 Interesting few days in #MUFC ahead. Sources from near to the club claim #Rooney and #SAF had a massive fall out in preseason... ...#Rooney is apparently ready to pack his backs, but #MUFC won't let the player go cheaply and not to a big rival (#MCFC)... ...However due to #Rooney's injury he will remain a #MUFC player until January... Football Agent @agent_153 ...#Rooney has said to #MUFC officials he wants a loan move to #EFC!! He still has a love for the #EFC... Football Agent @agent_153 ...and claims he needs to pay back the fans for leaving.  |
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