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United School Boy
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Post by . on Nov 17, 2015 20:08:15 GMT
Yes, I said as much. There is no exit strategy in the current one either, so what result will it achieve. I don't know, maybe you might help fix the ungodly mess you've made? You can't unring a bell. I think fixing the Middle East and/or terrorism is going to require more than another US effort. I was against the Iraq war from the very beginning, as were the millions of Americans who demonstrated in the streets against an Iraq invasion. Bush didn't listen. |
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Post by Stew on Nov 17, 2015 20:15:19 GMT
I don't know, maybe you might help fix the ungodly mess you've made? You can't unring a bell. I think fixing the Middle East and/or terrorism is going to require more than another US effort. I was against the Iraq war from the very beginning, as were the millions of Americans who demonstrated in the streets against an Iraq invasion. Bush didn't listen. I know. Millions around the world were. Anyone with access to half decent media knew it was bullshit. However, you did invade. And that cannot be undone. And therefore you are duty-bound, imo, to see it through to the end, which plainly hasn't been done. |
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Post by Stew on Nov 17, 2015 20:16:01 GMT
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Post by Bestie on Nov 17, 2015 20:21:28 GMT
The US, Britain, Muslim countries, Christian countries, China, Russia, every non fucking extremist country needs to get together and blow ISIL off the face of the planet. Surely, surely we can agree they need to be wiped out. Just for one fucking moment in history stand as a united planet against these bastards.
I am sick of this religious war crap. This isn't religion. It isn't about anything but cowardice and hatred and consciousless murder. Send in Mossad with the GRU, SAS, Royal Marines, CIA/NSA and start killing them. No ground troops. No open war. Just hunting and killing every last person associated with ISIL until they are dead.
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Post by Reduntildeath on Nov 17, 2015 20:33:47 GMT
This is why we need to fully support the Kurds,who captured Sinjar from Daesh,in every way we can,telling the Turks to leave the Kurds alone-as they don't want to get involved in a war against Daesh. I strongly suspect a "look the other way" deal was done when the Turks gave us leave to use Incirlik air base to bomb Iraq/Syria leaving them to go after the Kurds with renewed vigour. |
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Post by Stew on Nov 17, 2015 20:35:25 GMT
I know. Millions around the world were. Anyone with access to half decent media knew it was bullshit. However, you did invade. And that cannot be undone. And therefore you are duty-bound, imo, to see it through to the end, which plainly hasn't been done. Send in James Bond. He's free, since he dispatched Spectre. I'm not sure flippancy is the order of the day. |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Nov 17, 2015 20:36:44 GMT
Yeah, sick of the religious angle to be honest.
What's the solution, another ground invasion?
It feels like this has been left to fester too long and every half-unhinged youth impressionable to extremist dogma is now going to jump on the bandwagon.
The airstrikes are hardly going to solve it either.
Perhaps it's time for Russia to be the martyr for once, the UK, USA, France and many others have done their bit (for better or worse) and have paid dearly.
Russia has been dabbling around in Crimea, but perhaps they'll soon be compelled to utilise what is an incredibly powerful military for the better of the planet.
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Post by Stew on Nov 17, 2015 20:40:30 GMT
Yeah, sick of the religious angle to be honest. What's the solution, another ground invasion? It feels like this has been left to fester too long and every half-unhinged youth impressionable to extremist dogma are now going to jump on the bandwagon. The airstrikes are hardly going to solve it either. Perhaps it's time for Russia to be the martyr for once, the UK and USA have done their bit (for better or worse) and have paid dearly. I disagree Jay. The Americans created this mess, they need to fix it. Before anyone says it, I'm not anti-American in any way shape or form. I lived there, have lots of friends there. They were totally justified in going into Afghanistan imo. But Iraq was a disgrace led by Bush and his cronies, the effects of which are still being felt. |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Nov 17, 2015 20:44:34 GMT
Solutions can hardly be found by continuing the blame though.
Everyone is aware the US fucked up in Iraq for more than dubious reasons, but should they be flung into another war alone? Everyone knows that until public opinion drastically changes US troops won't be deployed in Syria, even then it's a stretch if they comprise the entire opposition on the ground.
The issue has clearly become European, hell even Africa (devastatingly so) and Australia are now under threat.
Hence I'd say it may be time for the major powers to work together. Sounds crazy I know.
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Post by Stew on Nov 17, 2015 20:58:47 GMT
Solutions can hardly be found by continuing the blame though. Everyone is aware the US fucked up in Iraq for more than dubious reasons, but should they be flung into another war alone? Everyone knows that until public opinion drastically changes US troops won't be deployed in Syria, even then it's a stretch if they comprise the entire opposition on the ground. The issue has clearly become European, hell even Africa (devastatingly so) and Australia are now under threat. Hence I'd say it may be time for the major powers to work together. Sounds crazy I know. As far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier when it comes to blasting ISIS off the face of the earth. I just don't it's morally fair that America gets to sit this one out on the ground when they had such a large part in creating the mess. Not that what I think means anything obviously. And it's easy for me to say, it's not me or my sons off doing the fighting. |
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Post by Kamilo on Nov 17, 2015 21:09:40 GMT
So we shouldn't help the 10,000,000 refugees because 1 terrorist is purported to have registered as a refugee...? Many of these comments are straight out of the BNP playbook, or like reading Skrewdriver lyrics, or watching Romper Stomper. And how exactly is going into Syria with troops going to turn out any differently than the US adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan? Did they come up with a magical new device that tells us who the bad guys are now, when they all fade back into the civilian population? They want us to come over there with overwhelming force. They want another quagmire. The trillions of dollars wasted, and the civilian lives, and our military casualties, are criminal. We were lied into the last war, we had no exit strategy, and it nearly bankrupted us. The world is not measurably safer today. It didn't work last time. If France wants to go in and bomb the shit out of ISIS, let them. Then maybe Jordan, Turkey, Saudi, and other countries will do the same thing. Muslim countries need to shut down ISIS. The US will help, but we are not taking the ball on this one. Christ at what point did I suggest not helping refugees?? I gave a fact not an opinion about how the affiliates came over under the cover of refugees that want prosperous, safe lives. My wife to be is a Bosnian refugee. Quick to assume there, did I suggest any action or policy?? Also in Iraq yes we were lied to into a war... but there was no evidence of WMDs, there was no concrete affiliation with terrorism, there were shady motives. In Afghanistan you had a similar thing, there was a skeptical affiliation with Bin Laden and no solid evidence he was in Afghanistan, only hear se. The Taliban banned opiate production and after they were ousted the Western Hemisphere explodes with a Heroin epidemic The motives and causes in these wars were much debated, rightfully so. Heres the difference, are you ready? Put down any political biases you have for one minute. ISIS is a clear enemy. They are a rebel group with an extreme ideology that is occupying and invading land that is anything but theirs. They are killing and pillaging along the way. Oil and ancient artifact black market sales are funding equipment, serious equipment. Tanks, planes, heavy arms, explosives, anti air weaponry... they have it. Currency, infrastructure, organization, media and propaganda... they have it. They have a grip on the region and they're operatives are self admittedly all over the world targeting innocent civilians with sophisticated planning and some plots are thwarted, others like Paris, are not. The group is undoubtedly taking responsibility for the blood baths and promising more, to what extent are you letting them grow? You can sit there and say that the current strategy is working? The middle eastern countries can barely take care of themselves you want them to wage a war they are loosing? When will you demand action, when there are live rounds coming at your head while you enjoy an evening coffee? Being reactive does not work, you need to be proactive. Intelligence alone cannot handle the shear power and complexity that ISIS has in the globe currently. The region is indefinitely unstable but it won't turn back towards stable if you let these fools run a muck. And its impacting the security of almost every other region in the world. Certain causes require action for simple humanitarian reasons. But as I said until the corrupt leadership figures out a way to profit from it, nothing will change. That is why Boko Haram can slaughter 3000 people overnight and the world turns away from it. |
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Post by Tatty on Nov 17, 2015 22:05:10 GMT
Y'know, ISIS wouldn't exist if we hadn't armed the fuckers in the 1st place. Now we're shitting the bed, because we backed the wrong horse. Assad is a despot of the highest order, but better the devil you know.
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Post by Deez on Nov 17, 2015 22:55:27 GMT
Porn is pretty Damn degrading to women. We don't care about that. Would you rather see your daughter fully clothed or in porn? Tough one. Get paid to do porn as well, don't get paid to wear a burka |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 23:44:37 GMT
They need to do all they can to turn ISIS into WASWAS. Unfortunately these politicians try to do this from behind a fucking desk.
Get rid of the fucking lot to them. Between the countries in the west you'd have thought they'd have enough intelligence to send units in and wipe the fuckers away for good.
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United School Boy
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Post by _ on Nov 18, 2015 2:26:00 GMT
Y'know, ISIS wouldn't exist if we hadn't armed the fuckers in the 1st place. Now we're shitting the bed, because we backed the wrong horse. Assad is a despot of the highest order, but better the devil you know. The same argument was put to Blair the Believer and Bush the buffoon over Saddam, but they couldn't see beyond the glory of war and their next election victories. Laughable to think Blair later became a peacemaker for the Middle East. |
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