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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 21:03:47 GMT
I agree with most of this but I still think Mourinho should be doing better regardless. Yes he should, but the problem(s) run alot deeper than the manager. We all know the Glazer's are cunts and we all know the way the club has been run over recent years has been a farce but I refuse to let that be used as an excuse for the failings on the pitch of this particular group of players and manager. The squad still needs some work, particularly in midfield but there's a lot of quality in there and we should be performing better. |
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Feb 12, 2018 21:10:48 GMT
Yes he should, but the problem(s) run alot deeper than the manager. We all know the Glazer's are cunts and we all know the way the club has been run over recent years has been a farce but I refuse to let that be used as an excuse for the failings on the pitch of this particular group of players and manager. The squad still needs some work, particularly in midfield but there's a lot of quality in there and we should be performing better. That would depend on whether you think most of them give a fuck about anything other than their paycheck? |
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Post by Karma on Feb 12, 2018 21:11:31 GMT
Fergie left an aging squad?
Are people so angry at how things are going they're just flat out making up complete fucking bollocks now?
United's squad in 2013 and the ages.
De Gea - 23 Rafael - 23 Fabio - 23 Jones - 21 Smalling - 24 Evans - 25 Ferdinand - 35 Vidic - 32 Evra - 32 Buttner - 24 Cleverley - 24 Carrick - 32 Powell - 19 Fletcher - 29 Anderson - 25 Giggs - 40 Nani - 27 Kagawa - 24 Januzaj - 18 Zaha - 21 Valencia - 28 Young - 28 Rooney - 28 Van Persie - 30 Hernandez - 25 Welbeck - 23
So, just the 15 players in and around the 1st team squad 25 and under. The massive number of 6 aged 30 and over.
If you want to comment on the ability of the young players, that's a totally different argument and his judgement can be questioned, absolutely. But to try and slag Fergie off making out like he fucked youth off and let the squad grow old, is bollocks.
The 6 you write of, were the core of the team. Or are we counting Powell also as a major part of our team ? And also, Giggs - 40, is a disgrace in itself. Now that you show us this list, not only did he leave us with an ageing core, he left us with some right shite players in there as well. Most of all, he got in an inept fucking cunt who sold the players who actually were good for this squad and brought in that cunt Fellaini . So you're damn right he deserves to carry some of this weight. Edit : Yes, I'm being ridiculous on purpose, because it seems that's the tone of this board now. Giggs was a symptom of Fergie's reluctance to get rid of the old guard. As long as he popped up with a goal or two so one of the match commentators could tell us he'd scored in every premier league season. Never mind it was often to the detriment of the team that we were often carrying him or denying a better player a place. I also think this stalled his managerial career playing for so long. Gary Neville was the same but at least the penny dropped after that West Brom game . Anderson was another who outstayed his welcome. There was a lot of chaff in that squad unfortunately Van Gaal replaced a lot of them with even more. |
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Post by . on Feb 12, 2018 21:14:00 GMT
By the way, just to clarify, I fucking hate Souness with a passion.
Just because he's a supposed 'Liverpool legend' doesn't mean his opinion on some things is totally invalid because you don't happen to like what you're hearing.
He was spot on about Pogba in many United fans opinions.
If you think Pogba is world class and Souness hasn't a clue, you need mental evaluation in my opinion.
Doesn't matter, do you need Fergie to say it for instance to make it valid because Souness is a right prick. Come on.
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Post by Karma on Feb 12, 2018 21:18:51 GMT
By the way, just to clarify, I fucking hate Souness with a passion. Just because he's a supposed 'Liverpool legend' doesn't mean his opinion on some things is totally invalid because you don't happen to like what you're hearing. He was spot on about Pogba in many United fans opinions. If you think Pogba is world class and Souness hasn't a clue, you need mental evaluation in my opinion. Doesn't matter, do you need Fergie to say it for instance to make it valid because Souness is a right prick. Come on. Pogba has the potential to be world class but Souness seems to have an axe to grind with Pogba. I'm starting to think a lot of pundits do tbh. I can't understand why he upsets people so much. I tell you what though I'd much rather watch him in our team that the likes of Cleverly and Gibson that's for sure. What a shit show that was. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 21:24:43 GMT
Pogba's had a bad month or so but have people really forgot how superb he's been for most of the season (when he's been fit at least)?
It obviously doesn't excuse his recent performances but talk of him being anything other than a world class talent is nonsense.
I still can't be overly critical of him until he's played in a more suitable system.
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Post by . on Feb 12, 2018 22:09:05 GMT
Another thing that I found irritating yesterday was the lack of urgency after we conceded the goal. A Fergie team would've made that Newcastle side shit bricks from the amount of pressure it would put on their defense after conceding a goal. This current team? going about their business as if this game isn't important. The Fergie teams were of a higher caliber than what we have now. Imagine a Beckham in this current side who could not only take a free kick but also could play a ball to any blade of grass on the pitch from anywhere. Lukaku would be scoring bags of goals. Imagine an Evra on one flank and G. Nev the other. God, I miss Neville so much  . Scholes in midfield... Rio and Vidic in the heart of defense... Fletcher/Butt/Keane... v. Nistelrooy... Ronaldo... The current team in comparison is just sad. |
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Post by . on Feb 12, 2018 22:13:46 GMT
Fergie left an aging squad?
Are people so angry at how things are going they're just flat out making up complete fucking bollocks now?
United's squad in 2013 and the ages.
De Gea - 23 Rafael - 23 Fabio - 23 Jones - 21 Smalling - 24 Evans - 25 Ferdinand - 35 Vidic - 32 Evra - 32 Buttner - 24 Cleverley - 24 Carrick - 32 Powell - 19 Fletcher - 29 Anderson - 25 Giggs - 40 Nani - 27 Kagawa - 24 Januzaj - 18 Zaha - 21 Valencia - 28 Young - 28 Rooney - 28 Van Persie - 30 Hernandez - 25 Welbeck - 23
So, just the 15 players in and around the 1st team squad 25 and under. The massive number of 6 aged 30 and over.
If you want to comment on the ability of the young players, that's a totally different argument and his judgement can be questioned, absolutely. But to try and slag Fergie off making out like he fucked youth off and let the squad grow old, is bollocks.
What about looking at the starters? De Gea - 23 Rafael - 23 Ferdinand - 35 Vidic - 32 Evra - 32 Carrick - 32 Fletcher - 29 Giggs - 40 Valencia - 28 Young - 28 Rooney - 28 Van Persie - 30 That *is* an aging squad. |
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Post by Stew on Feb 12, 2018 22:40:21 GMT
By the way, just to clarify, I fucking hate Souness with a passion. Just because he's a supposed 'Liverpool legend' doesn't mean his opinion on some things is totally invalid because you don't happen to like what you're hearing. He was spot on about Pogba in many United fans opinions. If you think Pogba is world class and Souness hasn't a clue, you need mental evaluation in my opinion. Doesn't matter, do you need Fergie to say it for instance to make it valid because Souness is a right prick. Come on. I dont think his opinion is invalid on Pogba because he’s a Liverpool legend. I think it’s invalid because it’s complete bollocks. What’s hilarious to me is the player Pogba is most similar to at the same age is Gerrard. The same Gerrard that would regularly go missing against the top sides but produce one moment and be lauded as a great. Whereas Scholes or Keane would completely run the game. Anyone that knew anything about football knew that Gerrard wasn’t the one that needed to be watched in that Liverpool team, it was Alonso. And when Benetiz finally moved him forward into a midfield 3, with Alonso and Macherano sitting, lo and behold Gerrard finally produced. You regurgitate the shite the likes of Souness and Dunphy pass off on here regularly. And then say, like they do that for 90 million he should be a complete midfielder blah blah blah. What you completely ignore, like those 2, is that Pogba needs to be played in a 3, to allow him to shine. It’s where he played for Juve, its where he made his name. It’s pointless playing him in a 2 and expecting him to be anything other than what he is at present. I dont know why people cant see this. I include Jose in this. |
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Post by redcase on Feb 12, 2018 22:51:23 GMT
Pogba's had a bad month or so but have people really forgot how superb he's been for most of the season (when he's been fit at least)? It obviously doesn't excuse his recent performances but talk of him being anything other than a world class talent is nonsense. I still can't be overly critical of him until he's played in a more suitable system. You see what I mean by unreasonable, irrational, garbage criticism? That poster there, is a prime example of it. |
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Post by redcase on Feb 12, 2018 22:53:04 GMT
By the way, just to clarify, I fucking hate Souness with a passion. Just because he's a supposed 'Liverpool legend' doesn't mean his opinion on some things is totally invalid because you don't happen to like what you're hearing. He was spot on about Pogba in many United fans opinions. If you think Pogba is world class and Souness hasn't a clue, you need mental evaluation in my opinion. Doesn't matter, do you need Fergie to say it for instance to make it valid because Souness is a right prick. Come on. I dont think his opinion is invalid on Pogba because he’s a Liverpool legend. I think it’s invalid because it’s complete bollocks. What’s hilarious to me is the player Pogba is most similar to at the same age is Gerrard. The same Gerrard that would regularly go missing against the top sides but produce one moment and be lauded as a great. Whereas Scholes or Keane would completely run the game. Anyone that knew anything about football knew that Gerrard wasn’t the one that needed to be watched in that Liverpool team, it was Alonso. And when Benetiz finally moved him forward into a midfield 3, with Alonso and Macherano sitting, lo and behold Gerrard finally produced. You regurgitate the shite the likes of Souness and Dunphy pass off on here regularly. And then say, like they do that for 90 million he should be a complete midfielder blah blah blah. What you completely ignore, like those 2, is that Pogba needs to be played in a 3, to allow him to shine. It’s where he played for Juve, its where he made his name. It’s pointless playing him in a 2 and expecting him to be anything other than what he is at present. I dont know why people cant see this. I include Jose in this. This dude regularly spouts nonsense. Either he is massively WUMming or is just an idiot. |
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Post by weetomsligaments on Feb 12, 2018 23:12:21 GMT
Not sure where to put this. Been watching the memorial videos and movies this past week and it got me thinking. United was a joy to support due to the club ethos. Play the kids. Win with the kids. Develop the kids. Coach the kids. WIN IT ALL WITH THE KIDS. I juxtapose that to what the supporters are being dished up weekly. A megalomaniac manager, an aging first team, a commercial first approach. And a noticeable lack of KIDS in key positions. Sure there are a few that get minutes. But what happened to playing the kids and coaching them up to be better? Which brings me back to Newcastle. Sanchez is not a KID. He is stealing minutes from a KID. Lukaku is not a KID. He is stealing minutes from a KID. Matic is not a KID. He is stealing minutes from a KID. I think the appeal of United has soured. Win at all costs is Real, PSG, City ... not United. United is supposed to win with KIDS. KIDS with talent, drive, and legendary tutelage. Maybe the next gaffer will understand this and get back to what makes United United. We probably play more kids than the majority of teams bar Spurs. Anything more than that is romantic flim flam. Unfortunately this is where football is now. If you are happy to be mid table with little chance of winning then maybe , but we still have a debt to pay and sponsors and shareholders to keep happy. Fergie won with kids because he wipes the floor with any of the current managers and that includes St Pep of Eastlands. Sir Matt won with KIDS. Hence the line about legendary tutelage. Mourinho and any other manager knows what they walk into when they take over at United. Winning is not everything. Winning the United way is. The way Sir Matt won. The way Sir Alex won. Winning at all costs by purchasing ready made mercenaries is not the United way. SET was correct ... most of the United mercenaries do not care about the badge they wear on their shirts. So it is up to the gaffer to get them excited to play and excited to sacrifice. As for the commercial deals limiting the youth ... winning football draws sponsorship monies. Always has. Always will. I think the challenge is how to win without buying 29 year olds to do it. Maybe Sir Matt and Sir Alex were just lucky with having a talented core group. Or maybe they were once in a generation managerial talents. Either way, their success is what makes United United. And that matters to the rest of the supporters who live outside of Manchester. They won with KIDS. |
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Post by Karma on Feb 13, 2018 0:01:14 GMT
We probably play more kids than the majority of teams bar Spurs. Anything more than that is romantic flim flam. Unfortunately this is where football is now. If you are happy to be mid table with little chance of winning then maybe , but we still have a debt to pay and sponsors and shareholders to keep happy. Fergie won with kids because he wipes the floor with any of the current managers and that includes St Pep of Eastlands. Sir Matt won with KIDS. Hence the line about legendary tutelage. Mourinho and any other manager knows what they walk into when they take over at United. Winning is not everything. Winning the United way is. The way Sir Matt won. The way Sir Alex won. Winning at all costs by purchasing ready made mercenaries is not the United way. SET was correct ... most of the United mercenaries do not care about the badge they wear on their shirts. So it is up to the gaffer to get them excited to play and excited to sacrifice. As for the commercial deals limiting the youth ... winning football draws sponsorship monies. Always has. Always will. I think the challenge is how to win without buying 29 year olds to do it. Maybe Sir Matt and Sir Alex were just lucky with having a talented core group. Or maybe they were once in a generation managerial talents. Either way, their success is what makes United United. And that matters to the rest of the supporters who live outside of Manchester. They won with KIDS. All sounds a bit pie in the sky to me. Football is what it is now. You seem to think playing kids because Fergie and Busby did it can be replicated again. The class of 92 was a one off. Players are earning a fortune without even making it now. The United way is a big myth as well. It's the same as the West Ham one. Look where that has got them. Stuck with David fecking Moyes. Ironic really . There was plenty of awful football under Fergie as well . |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 0:54:27 GMT
No idea about Souness as a pundit as he's not shown here but he's a 3 times Champions league winner as a central midfielder. Some people imo focus too much on technical ability. Player with really good technical ability must be world class. It's got nothing to do with ability & everything to do with how you implement what you have. Pogba is quite bad at that imo. He's a bit like Memphis (people who don't read posts properly please note I said a bit like him, try to understand what i'm posting before attacking the post). Memphis can show amazing skills when the game gets easier. Most players in world football can bust out tricks when the opponent aren't as good as them, they just choose not too. The test of how good you are is when you are playing equal or better opposition. Can you apply what you have or change the way you play to make an impact.
I disagree with Stew. there's no real reason for Pogba to not be able to play in a two. Maybe he missed a bit of his education by moving to Juve too early & having so much of the midfield carried by a really great player behind him. Even in a midfield 3 I've never felt he imposes himself on games like a world class player was. He maybe has world class potential but he's a ways off that. He needs to keep working & improving.
If I was Jose though & playing a two I'd wonder if that role is more suited to Herrera & Matic for the time being.
Edit. That said let's not be too harsh on him. The whole team needs to improve & he'll improve as a result.
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Post by weetomsligaments on Feb 13, 2018 2:18:55 GMT
Sir Matt won with KIDS. Hence the line about legendary tutelage. Mourinho and any other manager knows what they walk into when they take over at United. Winning is not everything. Winning the United way is. The way Sir Matt won. The way Sir Alex won. Winning at all costs by purchasing ready made mercenaries is not the United way. SET was correct ... most of the United mercenaries do not care about the badge they wear on their shirts. So it is up to the gaffer to get them excited to play and excited to sacrifice. As for the commercial deals limiting the youth ... winning football draws sponsorship monies. Always has. Always will. I think the challenge is how to win without buying 29 year olds to do it. Maybe Sir Matt and Sir Alex were just lucky with having a talented core group. Or maybe they were once in a generation managerial talents. Either way, their success is what makes United United. And that matters to the rest of the supporters who live outside of Manchester. They won with KIDS. All sounds a bit pie in the sky to me. Football is what it is now. You seem to think playing kids because Fergie and Busby did it can be replicated again. The class of 92 was a one off. Players are earning a fortune without even making it now. The United way is a big myth as well. It's the same as the West Ham one. Look where that has got them. Stuck with David fecking Moyes. Ironic really . There was plenty of awful football under Fergie as well . Well. That big myth of “The United Way” is exactly why supporters around the globe choose to follow and support United. Sir Alex replicated what Sir Matt accomplished. So they both happened to have a one off. At the same club. Espousing the same ideals. Playing attacking football with an emphasis on blooding youth. Sir Alex said it best - United is the most romantic football club with the most romantic story. And right now, the romance is waning. It feels like the ethos of the club is gone. I am not suggesting that United field an entire squad of academy graduates. I realize that will not succeed. I do however think that buying 29 year old mercenaries to come in and displace aspiring youth graduates is a mistake. I just hope the next manager can get more out of his squad than just buying better players. Any club can buy better players. United cannot win that particular game though. PSG, City, Real will win that game everyday. |
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