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Post by Rustin Cohle on Sept 23, 2018 9:46:11 GMT
Gut feeling getting rid of another manager isnt the answer However I may now contradict myself We have too many squad players that I class as players either not good enough to play every week or getting past it ie Mata Herrera Young Valencia Jones Bailey Darmian Rojo Sanches Would you bring any of these players on in a cup final when your 1-0 down or defending a 1-0 lead? These need to go in the winter window when other shit teams are desperate And if pogba and martial want to go let them go we need players who play for the team not themselves Now start to build a young team for the future one we can see develop over time, one that we will support as we know they are giving their all for the team, even if we don't win trophies initially and lose a few games. I would rather watch us lose with some fight rather than with a sulking whimper Start buying young British talent and promote from within and trust the younger players. Tgey hsve been briught uo tge united way. Bring back the on loan players and if we do buy then no players over the age of 25 But can and will Jose do this ? We know the answer is no so he has to go But we won't because the club will continue to spend millions on players in the hope they will be the missing piece if the jigsaw. The problem is the club have lost the jigsaw box so have no idea what the picture is Good points but I wouldn’t concern myself with signing British players. Sign good players regardless of where they’re from. Our greatest ever keeper was Foreign. Our greatest ever fullback was Irish, arguably our greatest ever midfielder was also. Portuguese, French, Norwegian, Dutch players have made indelible marks on the club. Plenty of British players have too but to me it’s not that important any more. I think the worst thing we could do is try and sign young, British players - except Kane, who has proven that he is world class. I want great players and I don’t care what country they were born in. I do have a fear that The FA will use Brexit as an excuse to force clubs to fill half (or more) of the team on the pitch with British players at all times. The EU didn’t allow that before. It’d massively devalue the quality and monetary value of the PL IMO, all to try and probably fail to chase a World Cup. The only upside would be if the PL became less lucrative maybe the Glazers would fuck off. |
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Post by Stew on Sept 23, 2018 9:47:51 GMT
My point is- we have no idea how Zidane will do as Utd manager at this moment in time. But if we arse about like we did with say Klopp, we’ll almost certainly miss the boat again and will be wondering for all time. I’d like us to be fucking proactive for once and act decisively, rather than die wondering. Sadly there’s nothing to suggest Jose is turning this around. I like him in the main and wanted him here. Unfortunately he looks like the managerial version of Sanchez- in theory an excellent idea but in reality it didn’t work out.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Sept 23, 2018 9:53:53 GMT
I posted about Zidane in the other thread just now, but I just want to be clear (I know you weren’t aiming this at me) that I’m not dismissive of his achievements. I think what he did was incredible. Klopp, Pep, Sarri, Pochettino etc. - none of them could have done what he did with winning 3 CL’s. I just think what he did is different to the massive rebuilding job we have on our hands. We need someone to pull us up to that level first, and I’m not sure Zidane is the man for that. Zidane would probably be fantastic as Post-Fergie Manager #5, once he’s followed someone who won us a league and got us back to being a serious threat in Europe, so Zidane could come in and just push us over the edge (which is arguably the hardest part). I just think the talents he showed at Real don’t fit the job we need right now. Also, they may have been in a mess when he arrived but that was only because of the Fat Spanish Waiter. They still had, man for man, the best team in the world IMO. Fair enough but who’s winning us this league title? I think a few managers could if they were given the right circumstances (the most important of which is probably a DoF/Woodward just staying out of transfers, but they’d also need financial backing). Jardim, Simeone, Pochettino all spring to mind as managers who could do the 2-3 season rebuild I think we need - I also had Sarri in mind before he went to Chelsea. None of them are perfect. Pochettino has the silverware issue and his players burn out at the end of the season (and possibly at the start of the season now, but I think that’s more due to Levy not giving him the money to build a true squad rather than just having 14-15 players of use). Jardim doesn’t have much of a record in terms of identifying players in the transfer market, nor a history of spending money well (easier said than done as we prove). Simeone’s main criticism is style of play - not the idea that he is overly defensive week in week out which I believe is simply untrue, but in big games he does have an underdog style that would work very well now, but wouldn’t suit us once we become a team that wins every other title (or more) again. If Simeone came in for 4-5 years and then went to his dream job at Inter, leaving the door open for Zidane to push us that bit further, that could possibly be perfect. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 9:55:42 GMT
Good points but I wouldn’t concern myself with signing British players. Sign good players regardless of where they’re from. Our greatest ever keeper was Foreign. Our greatest ever fullback was Irish, arguably our greatest ever midfielder was also. Portuguese, French, Norwegian, Dutch players have made indelible marks on the club. Plenty of British players have too but to me it’s not that important any more. I think the worst thing we could do is try and sign young, British players - except Kane, who has proven that he is world class. I want great players and I don’t care what country they were born in. I do have a fear that The FA will use Brexit as an excuse to force clubs to fill half (or more) of the team on the pitch with British players at all times. The EU didn’t allow that before. It’d massively devalue the quality and monetary value of the PL IMO, all to try and probably fail to chase a World Cup. The only upside would be if the PL became less lucrative maybe the Glazers would fuck off. We have a brilliant record with young British players. We fucked up with Zaha. There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be hoovering the best English talent. |
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Post by bushy1987 on Sept 23, 2018 9:57:46 GMT
My point is- we have no idea how Zidane will do as Utd manager at this moment in time. But if we arse about like we did with say Klopp, we’ll almost certainly miss the boat again and will be wondering for all time. I’d like us to be fucking proactive for once and act decisively, rather than die wondering. Sadly there’s nothing to suggest Jose is turning this around. I like him in the main and wanted him here. Unfortunately he looks like the managerial version of Sanchez- in theory an excellent idea but in reality it didn’t work out. If it was me another bad result against a lesser team and I would pull the trigger on Jose, if Zidane is the man we want get him in, he will have a month or 2 before the Jan window, and then all of the second half of the season to try and work out what he needs. Unfortunately ed is in charge so Jose will be here either untill 4th place is out of reach or he has had a massive meltdown but by that time the season will be a right off. |
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Post by Stew on Sept 23, 2018 9:59:03 GMT
Fair enough but who’s winning us this league title? I think a few managers could if they were given the right circumstances (the most important of which is probably a DoF/Woodward just staying out of transfers, but they’d also need financial backing). Jardim, Simeone, Pochettino all spring to mind as managers who could do the 2-3 season rebuild I think we need - I also had Sarri in mind before he went to Chelsea. None of them are perfect. Pochettino has the silverware issue and his players burn out at the end of the season (and possibly at the start of the season now, but I think that’s more due to Levy not giving him the money to build a true squad rather than just having 14-15 players of use). Jardim doesn’t have much of a record in terms of identifying players in the transfer market, nor a history of spending money well (easier said than done as we prove). Simeone’s main criticism is style of play - not the idea that he is overly defensive week in week out which I believe is simply untrue, but in big games he does have an underdog style that would work very well now, but wouldn’t suit us once we become a team that wins every other title (or more) again. If Simeone came in for 4-5 years and then went to his dream job at Inter, leaving the door open for Zidane to push us that bit further, that could possibly be perfect. You see, I really don’t get the idea behind picking one of these guys over a far more successful manager in Zidane. To me that’s actually trying to be too clever. We don’t know what Zidane is capable of yet. Maybe he can rebuild a side if required. But did City think they should wait because Pep had been handed excellent squads at his previous clubs? Of course not. Why should we? These guys listed are good manager but as have as many doubts as Zidane. I’d prefer to take a gamble on the guy who has won 3 champions leagues in 4 years. If Ed gets out of his way, say signs 3 top drawer players then the team can be transformed. |
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Post by Stew on Sept 23, 2018 10:00:42 GMT
My point is- we have no idea how Zidane will do as Utd manager at this moment in time. But if we arse about like we did with say Klopp, we’ll almost certainly miss the boat again and will be wondering for all time. I’d like us to be fucking proactive for once and act decisively, rather than die wondering. Sadly there’s nothing to suggest Jose is turning this around. I like him in the main and wanted him here. Unfortunately he looks like the managerial version of Sanchez- in theory an excellent idea but in reality it didn’t work out. If it was me another bad result against a lesser team and I would pull the trigger on Jose, if Zidane is the man we want get him in, he will have a month or 2 before the Jan window, and then all of the second half of the season to try and work out what he needs. Unfortunately ed is in charge so Jose will be here either untill 4th place is out of reach or he has had a massive meltdown but by that time the season will be a right off. Exactly. If we wait until top 4 is gone (which is so Arsenal btw, pathetic Woodward) in say late March, then there isn’t a hope in hell Zidane is still available. |
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Post by bushy1987 on Sept 23, 2018 10:01:50 GMT
I think the worst thing we could do is try and sign young, British players - except Kane, who has proven that he is world class. I want great players and I don’t care what country they were born in. I do have a fear that The FA will use Brexit as an excuse to force clubs to fill half (or more) of the team on the pitch with British players at all times. The EU didn’t allow that before. It’d massively devalue the quality and monetary value of the PL IMO, all to try and probably fail to chase a World Cup. The only upside would be if the PL became less lucrative maybe the Glazers would fuck off. We have a brilliant record with young British players. We fucked up with Zaha. There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be hoovering the best English talent. We should be watching maddison at Leicester he looks like he could be a real player, no doubt he keeps performing and ends up at the Scouse or spuds, we should of signed sessegnon too, I know the boat has well and truly sailed on will Hughes but I like him a lot and he doesn't look out of place in the prem. |
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Post by Stew on Sept 23, 2018 10:03:00 GMT
I think the worst thing we could do is try and sign young, British players - except Kane, who has proven that he is world class. I want great players and I don’t care what country they were born in. I do have a fear that The FA will use Brexit as an excuse to force clubs to fill half (or more) of the team on the pitch with British players at all times. The EU didn’t allow that before. It’d massively devalue the quality and monetary value of the PL IMO, all to try and probably fail to chase a World Cup. The only upside would be if the PL became less lucrative maybe the Glazers would fuck off. We have a brilliant record with young British players. We fucked up with Zaha. There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be hoovering the best English talent. I’d prefer to hoover up the best French talent personally. Because they’re, you know, better. |
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Post by bushy1987 on Sept 23, 2018 10:03:23 GMT
I think a few managers could if they were given the right circumstances (the most important of which is probably a DoF/Woodward just staying out of transfers, but they’d also need financial backing). Jardim, Simeone, Pochettino all spring to mind as managers who could do the 2-3 season rebuild I think we need - I also had Sarri in mind before he went to Chelsea. None of them are perfect. Pochettino has the silverware issue and his players burn out at the end of the season (and possibly at the start of the season now, but I think that’s more due to Levy not giving him the money to build a true squad rather than just having 14-15 players of use). Jardim doesn’t have much of a record in terms of identifying players in the transfer market, nor a history of spending money well (easier said than done as we prove). Simeone’s main criticism is style of play - not the idea that he is overly defensive week in week out which I believe is simply untrue, but in big games he does have an underdog style that would work very well now, but wouldn’t suit us once we become a team that wins every other title (or more) again. If Simeone came in for 4-5 years and then went to his dream job at Inter, leaving the door open for Zidane to push us that bit further, that could possibly be perfect. You see, I really don’t get the idea behind picking one of these guys over a far more successful manager in Zidane. To me that’s actually trying to be too clever. We don’t know what Zidane is capable of yet. Maybe he can rebuild a side if required. But did City think they should wait because Pep had been handed excellent squads at his previous clubs? Of course not. Why should we? These guys listed are good manager but as have as many doubts as Zidane. I’d prefer to take a gamble on the guy who has won 3 champions leagues in 4 years. If Ed gets out of his way, say signs 3 top drawer players then the team can be transformed. The main thing with Zidane for me is the players these days all watched him live looked up to him idolised him, what players wouldn't want to work with zidane |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 10:06:01 GMT
We have a brilliant record with young British players. We fucked up with Zaha. There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be hoovering the best English talent. I’d prefer to hoover up the best French talent personally. Because they’re, you know, better. Yeah but they can tend to be a pain in the ass. I think French players are our second most common and successful. It's a shirt ride accross the pond so they tend to stay for a while. |
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Post by Stew on Sept 23, 2018 10:06:26 GMT
It pains us to admit it, but players want to sign for Pep. The fucker guarantees trophies. He’s had one trophy-less season in his career. Is there anyone else that can say that? I know Jose was close but it’s not really working here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 10:12:55 GMT
We had 15 shots to their 11. We had 62% possession to their 38%. The corner count was equal. Where does this myth that we were dominated by Wolves come from? I’m as annoyed as anyone about yesterday but let’s not re-write history to suit our own agenda. We were not dominated but it was clear as daylight that they played better as an attacking unit. Going back to the first half, I recall our goal being scored against the run of play too |
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Post by Karma on Sept 23, 2018 10:15:05 GMT
My point is- we have no idea how Zidane will do as Utd manager at this moment in time. But if we arse about like we did with say Klopp, we’ll almost certainly miss the boat again and will be wondering for all time. I’d like us to be fucking proactive for once and act decisively, rather than die wondering. Sadly there’s nothing to suggest Jose is turning this around. I like him in the main and wanted him here. Unfortunately he looks like the managerial version of Sanchez- in theory an excellent idea but in reality it didn’t work out. If it was me another bad result against a lesser team and I would pull the trigger on Jose, if Zidane is the man we want get him in, he will have a month or 2 before the Jan window, and then all of the second half of the season to try and work out what he needs. Unfortunately ed is in charge so Jose will be here either untill 4th place is out of reach or he has had a massive meltdown but by that time the season will be a right off. So we have a situation where Ed doesn't want another pay off so he gives the manager time to turn it around. The last two didn't so why is this situation different? So it boils down to money and always has. The same reason they were swept up with the Moyes recommendation. A manager they thought could work to a budget enough to get top 4 every season. We should crowdfund a plane every week until these owners get the message. |
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Post by Stew on Sept 23, 2018 10:19:53 GMT
At the end of the day lads, there’s a guy out there, wanting the job, that’s won as many champions leagues in 4 years as Man Utd have in its history.
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