Vs Juventus (H) CL- 20.00 - 23.10.18

[Deleted]

I personally think that the comparisons with City are a scam, and deliberately missing the point. City are owned by a country. We are rich, but not that rich. Yeah, I know... the greedy owners and all that. I wish we could go back in time and become a fans-owned club or some other imaginary model. I have no problem accepting that we can't rival long-term a state-owned City for spending power. However, for me this argument does not hold water because Liverpool, Chelsea and even Spurs and Arsenal are challenging City on the pitch while Jose's United mixes it with Watford, Wolves and Leicester.

[.]

ESPN are reporting that Pogba was taking photos with Cuadrado just after the game.

This isn't going down well at all.

[caino]

not reporting. actually did it. in the Daily Mail too. Arms round each other getting gifts off Caudrado/

spineless twats. do it in privacy after the game

[Deleted]

Modern world. Doesn't happen unless you post a photo on your insta

[Rustin Cohle]

[Bestie]

Oct 24, 2018 13:05:06 GMT @redpilgrim said:

I personally think that the comparisons with City are a scam, and deliberately missing the point. City are owned by a country. We are rich, but not that rich. Yeah, I know... the greedy owners and all that. I wish we could go back in time and become a fans-owned club or some other imaginary model. I have no problem accepting that we can't rival long-term a state-owned City for spending power. However, for me this argument does not hold water because Liverpool, Chelsea and even Spurs and Arsenal are challenging City on the pitch while Jose's United mixes it with Watford, Wolves and Leicester.

It isn't about spending power as much as it is about the aims of the club's owners. city/PSG are to promote their image which means the clubs winning the biggest trophies and buying goodwill in local surrounding areas. Ours want to manage debt and skim the profit of whoring the club's reputation and heritage.

[Bestie]

Oct 24, 2018 12:58:08 GMT _ said:

Oct 24, 2018 12:29:33 GMT Bestie said:

In the last four seasons we have only outspent city once. That was this summer. They have also obviously vastly outspent us in the last decade, investing not only in the playing squad but infrastructure, training facilities, stadium and 'footballing hierarchy'. They laid out the carpet for Guardiola years before he even took the job.

We lack that sort of investment and forward planning.

see Van Gaal too, so basically 5 years of conflicted ideas and poor planning down to Woodwards react and spend. It has to change

I'd love to see  a really good purist coach who is more chilled and less focused on himself,  given a chance with our spending power. Like a Sarri or Jardin or Poch. The big CV's haven't worked

Sarri was the one since Klopp is tainted. Great footballing philosophy and seems like a gentleman off the pitch too.

[_]

Just a thought, but Mourinho was fired from Chelsea when they were 15th and lost 7 in a row or something. Klopps Dortmund were in a relegation battle, when he left

Jardim, seems like a manager who is totally underrated and might suit the mix of youth and experience we tend to look for? The mess at Monaco this year is not his fault by a long shot

Good article on him here www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/11/monaco-leonardo-jardim-manager-ligue-1


This is how it ends, then. Monaco’s glorious money-spinning project, so potent and so impressive for the better part of four seasons under Leonardo Jardim, went through one too many rotations and now the manager has left the club by mutual consent. The results – with no wins in their last 10 games – weren’t pretty, but Monaco are in this position because they were short-termist, they over-reached in the transfer market and they alienated their key players.

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2018 13:57:01 GMT Bestie said:

Oct 24, 2018 13:05:06 GMT @redpilgrim said:

I personally think that the comparisons with City are a scam, and deliberately missing the point. City are owned by a country. We are rich, but not that rich. Yeah, I know... the greedy owners and all that. I wish we could go back in time and become a fans-owned club or some other imaginary model. I have no problem accepting that we can't rival long-term a state-owned City for spending power. However, for me this argument does not hold water because Liverpool, Chelsea and even Spurs and Arsenal are challenging City on the pitch while Jose's United mixes it with Watford, Wolves and Leicester.

It isn't about spending power as much as it is about the aims of the club's owners. city/PSG are to promote their image which means the clubs winning the biggest trophies and buying goodwill in local surrounding areas. Ours want to manage debt and skim the profit of whoring the club's reputation and heritage.

I understand this, and I'm not happy with the ownership model and all that but there are other things I don't like with what we call modern life and I just have to accept. I guess if we have those Saudi murderers as owners they'll be busy promoting their image with the help of our club so we will be able to tick that box. However, now we are in the same boat with Arsenal and Liverpool in that we are owned by businessmen who are in this for their own profit. As long as they are keeping pace with City while we rejoice at the occasional decent result I'm not accepting the City comparisons as a valid excuse for being midtable.

[Rustin Cohle]

www.football365.com/news/f365-says-one-step-forward-two-slow-steps-back-for-man-utd

F365 Says: One step forward, two slow steps back for Man Utd

This was a Champions League clash that went entirely by the form book. The seven-time Serie A champions, the Italian league leaders in the midst of their best ever start to a season, put on a clinic for the Premier League’s 10th-placed team and in that context, the outcome was not a surprise. But the gulf in class was not the biggest source of embarrassment on an utterly deflating night for Manchester United fans already accustomed to being disappointed.

What encouragement Jose Mourinho’s side offered during a creditable performance at Chelsea was eroded by yet another woeful first-half performance at Old Trafford. Supporters arrived, most before their team, hoping for similar drive and enthusiasm as United showed in the second half at Stamford Bridge. Instead, they witnessed an alarmingly passive performance which showed up the weekend as just a break in the clouds.

United had only 32% possession in the first half, managed only three touches in the Juve box and were out-shot by the visitors eight to one before half-time. But none of those technical deficiencies grated more than a simple lack of urgency or aggression.

It is hard still to know who to pin the blame on. In naming an unchanged side for the first time in 46 games after an uncharacteristically assertive selection at the unbeaten Blues on Saturday, the hope and the expectation was that Mourinho would instruct United to take the game to the visitors. Attack has been their best form of defence in recent weeks, and even against Cristiano Ronaldo and Paulo Dybala, prior to kick-off it seemed Mourinho had opted to demand the same urgency he showed in walking the half-mile to the ground.

From the first whistle, there was no evidence of such an approach. Either Mourinho gave in to his jitters and opted for a painfully conservative plan, or his players are simply unable – or unwilling – to play on the front foot.

Both are probably true. But Mourinho is at least offering the illusion of trying to make it work. The manager is giving opportunities to players he doesn’t trust in a shape more attacking than the many that have gone before over the last year, but the squad’s consistency of performance is only proving Mourinho’s pessimistic instinct right.

Nothing Mourinho tries with this squad seems to work. How can the manager continue to be accused of holding these players back when not a single formation is apparently to the taste of his big names?

In and out of possession, United look laboured and bereft of speed, in thought and movement. Against the class of Juventus, long periods of the game looked like shadow play; if Massimiliano Allegri called in his reserves in recent days to imitate United, they most likely offered a stiffer test.

Luke Shaw admitted immediately after the defeat that he and his team mates showed Juve too much respect in the first half. “We should have been pressing higher and been more aggressive,” he said, which the players – not Mourinho – have to accept the blame for.

“Why not?” said Romelu Lukaku last week when he was asked about the possibility of one day playing for Juve, while talk of a return to Turin for Paul Pogba refuses to go away. On current form, the Old Lady wouldn’t look twice at the pair of them, not while Dybala demonstrates the kind of dynamism Lukaku can’t match, and with Miralem Pjanic showing Pogba what a midfield general really looks like. But they, like many of their team-mates, appear to believe that United’s current predicament does not reflect poorly on them.

After the weekend, Old Trafford was geared up for a big European night, hoping to see further evidence that a diversion had been taken off the road to nowhere. Instead, they barely witnessed a sprint or a tackle until the hour mark, when Ashley Young outpaced Blaise Matuidi to wake the supporters from their slumber. But tedium quickly returned while United simply drifted to a defeat that was too willingly accepted a long time prior to the final whistle.

[.]

Oct 24, 2018 13:29:49 GMT caino said:

not reporting. actually did it. in the Daily Mail too. Arms round each other getting gifts off Caudrado/

spineless twats. do it in privacy after the game

Said it on here a few days ago, I do wonder about some of our players sometimes.

After a dross performance like last night and Pogba thinks it's just fine to be taking photos with Juve players directly after the game. They're so detached from the fans it's unreal.

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2018 15:12:00 GMT . said:

Oct 24, 2018 13:29:49 GMT caino said:

not reporting. actually did it. in the Daily Mail too. Arms round each other getting gifts off Caudrado/

spineless twats. do it in privacy after the game

Said it on here a few days ago, I do wonder about some of our players sometimes.

After a dross performance like last night and Pogba thinks it's just fine to be taking photos with Juve players directly after the game. They're so detached from the fans it's unreal.

Modern football. Can’t blame the players only. Money and social media are just two signs of the changing times. Players are mercenary detached millionairs while a good chunk of the fanbase consists of itchy transfer muppets. In the past players would not dare taking photos and giggle with opposition players after a defeat, but fans would not leave OT in their thousands to beat the traffic either. 

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2018 12:29:33 GMT Bestie said:

Oct 24, 2018 11:45:18 GMT _ said:

Really?  did they spend more than us the last 4 years? Is their wage bill higher than ours and is their academy producing more youngsters than we do?

It's just a question, maybe they are!??  I would be surprised if their investment is any way higher than ours, but the direction and coaching seems much better! 

In the last four seasons we have only outspent city once. That was this summer. They have also obviously vastly outspent us in the last decade, investing not only in the playing squad but infrastructure, training facilities, stadium and 'footballing hierarchy'. They laid out the carpet for Guardiola years before he even took the job.

We lack that sort of investment and forward planning.

Spending isn't the main issue here. Its the quality of which the money has been spent, which we've been poor with. He's bought 10 players, none of them have really reached and acceptable level, besides perhaps Matic and maybe Lindelof who seems to be improving a fair bit now. I'm by no means defending Woodward but can you blame him for not allowing him more money to waste? Mourinho is acting like he's been hard done by, He's spent and wasted best part of £400m ffs.

If Mourinho didn't make any changes last night to make a point then he can fuck off even more. The fact he kept Lukaku on is on him.

Guy needs to vanish as soon as possible. He's a clown

[GeniusCantona]

Oct 24, 2018 14:23:34 GMT _ said:

Just a thought, but Mourinho was fired from Chelsea when they were 15th and lost 7 in a row or something. Klopps Dortmund were in a relegation battle, when he left

Jardim, seems like a manager who is totally underrated and might suit the mix of youth and experience we tend to look for? The mess at Monaco this year is not his fault by a long shot

Good article on him here www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/11/monaco-leonardo-jardim-manager-ligue-1


This is how it ends, then. Monaco’s glorious money-spinning project, so potent and so impressive for the better part of four seasons under Leonardo Jardim, went through one too many rotations and now the manager has left the club by mutual consent. The results – with no wins in their last 10 games – weren’t pretty, but Monaco are in this position because they were short-termist, they over-reached in the transfer market and they alienated their key players.

A DoF with a long-term vision for the Club and a manager like Jardim who can work with our young players is clearly needed.  But Ed's ego is so big and he's so inept that he won't allow for this happen.  

[GeniusCantona]

Oct 24, 2018 16:50:27 GMT Paul said:

Oct 24, 2018 12:29:33 GMT Bestie said:

In the last four seasons we have only outspent city once. That was this summer. They have also obviously vastly outspent us in the last decade, investing not only in the playing squad but infrastructure, training facilities, stadium and 'footballing hierarchy'. They laid out the carpet for Guardiola years before he even took the job.

We lack that sort of investment and forward planning.

Spending isn't the main issue here. Its the quality of which the money has been spent, which we've been poor with. He's bought 10 players, none of them have really reached and acceptable level, besides perhaps Matic and maybe Lindelof who seems to be improving a fair bit now. I'm by no means defending Woodward but can you blame him for not allowing him more money to waste? Mourinho is acting like he's been hard done by, He's spent and wasted best part of £400m ffs.

If Mourinho didn't make any changes last night to make a point then he can fuck off even more. The fact he kept Lukaku on is on him.

Guy needs to vanish as soon as possible. He's a clown

And this is why we need a Director of Football.  We're all making different points and arguments on we're still shite but it all leads to the one common denominator and key piece missing for our club --> a DOF!  This one simple appointment could make a huge difference for us but fucking egos, ineptitude, incompetence etc. on the board and up the wire to the gimps are preventing us from moving forward.