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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 9:14:35 GMT
It doesn't take a lot of time to learn soneone's character and it isn't for the CEO to judge it. Keep trying though. Fergie didn't always get the judgement right. Tevez? What about players who seem grounded initially and then the success goes to their head? Plenty of those around. Or those who shag their brother's wife? Shag prostitutes? Have multiple partners despite being married and try to get injunctions to stop the press writing about it? Those who prioritise celebrity over football? Alcoholics Addictive personalities? Wife beaters? Drink drivers? Those who allow their agents to control them ? Characteristics like that? Yeah a background check would have stopped us having problems like those? Keep trying though. You've badly missed the point again. |
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Post by Karma on Dec 6, 2018 9:18:50 GMT
Fergie didn't always get the judgement right. Tevez? What about players who seem grounded initially and then the success goes to their head? Plenty of those around. Or those who shag their brother's wife? Shag prostitutes? Have multiple partners despite being married and try to get injunctions to stop the press writing about it? Those who prioritise celebrity over football? Alcoholics Addictive personalities? Wife beaters? Drink drivers? Those who allow their agents to control them ? Characteristics like that? Yeah a background check would have stopped us having problems like those? Keep trying though. Those things have nothing to do with their character on the pitch though. In a sporting context, you can't question the character of Ryan Giggs etc. Players that never hid. The players now are fucking cowards, the vast majority of them want nowt to do with it when it gets tough. In terms of interests outside of football, there's not much difference between Pogba and say, David Beckham, but there's a world of difference between the two in a footballing context. No what you are saying is as long as the player performs on the pitch we can ignore the off the field stuff? Until they turn to shit when it becomes a stick to beat them with? We have attracted too many bad apples because we are throwing money at everyone. Then the shit ones keep getting rewarded because Eddy keeps thinking back to Zaha, realised he fucked up and for some strange reason is scared to make the same mistake again, as well as it being cheaper to renew than sign another. Yeah but it's all about character really. |
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Post by Karma on Dec 6, 2018 9:33:49 GMT
Fergie didn't always get the judgement right. Tevez? What about players who seem grounded initially and then the success goes to their head? Plenty of those around. Or those who shag their brother's wife? Shag prostitutes? Have multiple partners despite being married and try to get injunctions to stop the press writing about it? Those who prioritise celebrity over football? Alcoholics Addictive personalities? Wife beaters? Drink drivers? Those who allow their agents to control them ? Characteristics like that? Yeah a background check would have stopped us having problems like those? Keep trying though. You've badly missed the point again. Maybe you should offer your services because you seem to think this character idea is why we are 8th? 1.Incompetent CEO 2.Manager who has lost respect of some of his players after throwing his toys out of the pram because his CEO thinks our defenders are good enough despite season after season De Gea bailing us out. 3.The board refusing to recognise their mistakes and act. 4.We can score but we can't defend, goes back to point 1 5.CEO briefing against his manager on the eve of our first PL game 6.CEO who prioritises names. There's enough evidence out there to support this idea. The majority of these names have been poor and expensive. Here's an example Pogba is a bad apple? Get rid! But no he sells shirts/is our best player when he can be bothered. So we have to decide whether it's Jose who is the problem rather than him ? They don't want to lose Pogba but won't sack Jose. So we have to let this toxic relationship drag on because the DickEd in charge won't make a decision. There's a power struggle going on here and Eddy wants to put his head in the sand.Its affecting the dressing room imo. So you can talk about character all you want, there are finer things at play here imo. |
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Post by Stew on Dec 6, 2018 9:53:30 GMT
It’s about good players. Getting them and managing them properly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 10:15:08 GMT
Those things have nothing to do with their character on the pitch though. In a sporting context, you can't question the character of Ryan Giggs etc. Players that never hid. The players now are fucking cowards, the vast majority of them want nowt to do with it when it gets tough. In terms of interests outside of football, there's not much difference between Pogba and say, David Beckham, but there's a world of difference between the two in a footballing context. No what you are saying is as long as the player performs on the pitch we can ignore the off the field stuff? Until they turn to shit when it becomes a stick to beat them with? We have attracted too many bad apples because we are throwing money at everyone. Then the shit ones keep getting rewarded because Eddy keeps thinking back to Zaha, realised he fucked up and for some strange reason is scared to make the same mistake again, as well as it being cheaper to renew than sign another.Yeah but it's all about character really. Throwing money or penny pinching? |
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Post by Karma on Dec 6, 2018 10:29:33 GMT
No what you are saying is as long as the player performs on the pitch we can ignore the off the field stuff? Until they turn to shit when it becomes a stick to beat them with? We have attracted too many bad apples because we are throwing money at everyone. Then the shit ones keep getting rewarded because Eddy keeps thinking back to Zaha, realised he fucked up and for some strange reason is scared to make the same mistake again, as well as it being cheaper to renew than sign another.Yeah but it's all about character really. Throwing money or penny pinching? Penny wise , Pound foolish sums it up. Ed wants the names, doesn't care if they want massive wages, are on the decline , don't want to come or are a sick note. Di Maria Sanchez Falcao 2 under the previous manager. Same CEO. Giving Rooney a 5 and a half year contract when Fergie had practically gift wrapped him out of the door. Sending Nani out on loan after giving him a new contract. Selling Nani, Rafael, Zaha, Johnny Evans for peanuts. Allowing Fellani's release clause to expire and then paying more. Giving Jose a contract extension and then not backing him adequately in the summer. |
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Post by alt on Dec 6, 2018 10:51:32 GMT
Shite again but at least it was entertaining.
Steep learning curve for Dalot, caught out lots of times, but given the seasons a write off already, we should just stick with him and fully bed him in for next season.
Oh and Mourinho can FUCK OFF - back to 2-2 and he then sticks Fellaini on. Get this fucking fraud out of the club.
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Post by Bestie on Dec 6, 2018 11:08:12 GMT
No what you are saying is as long as the player performs on the pitch we can ignore the off the field stuff? Until they turn to shit when it becomes a stick to beat them with? We have attracted too many bad apples because we are throwing money at everyone. Then the shit ones keep getting rewarded because Eddy keeps thinking back to Zaha, realised he fucked up and for some strange reason is scared to make the same mistake again, as well as it being cheaper to renew than sign another.Yeah but it's all about character really. Throwing money or penny pinching? Both. They will skimp on stadium redevelopments, long-term planning and investment, facilities upgrades (or facilities being open at all without having to get a fucking permission slip). The stuff people cannot obviously see. Refusing to allow loan-to-buy transfers (preferring outright sales for immediate income); demanding unrealistic fees (particularly considering wage offsets) for unwanted players; offering new contracts to players the manager wants to sell in order to stop the player leaving for free; offering transfer fees over extended payments rather than one-off fees. On the other hand happy to very publicly throw high sums at glossy transfer targets (as long as they are marketable) that are signed mostly for the purpose of showing off 'we can'. Regardless of suitability or need. So yeah. It's both. Tight on one side, profligate on the other. |
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Post by caino on Dec 6, 2018 11:08:29 GMT
Yes you can, you just buy players with character. It's one of the things we used to do under Ferguson. We had a lot of average players who made great contributions because Ferguson looked at the character. That shouldn't even be difficult. It might help though if the CEO didn't have such a hard on for 'names '. Throwing money around has attracted too many of the wrong kind of players. its not hard to know if a player has a strong character on the pitch. they work with footballers day in day out. for example... its clear as day Van Dijk, Ramos, Terry, Rio are/were strong characters. have you ever played a sport ? or competed in anything ? If so, you will know who the strong characters are in those games. from amateur level right through to professional level. as your alluding to it, I couldn't give a flyin shit what players do off the pitch. its their lives they can do what they want. but as long as they perform on the pitch is all that matters. they could be the biggest arsehole off the pitch and I wouldn't care as long as theyre winning us games |
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Post by mightyez on Dec 6, 2018 11:51:20 GMT
Are the owners goons? YES
Is Ed the man to deal with footballing and on the pitch affairs? HELL NO
Is Mourinho absolved of blame for the debacle of this seaseaon? HELL NO.
He is 80% the problem, simply because he picks the team, trains them etc and his negativity all round since the summer definitely had an affect on these players
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Post by _ on Dec 6, 2018 12:14:31 GMT
This to me is more worrying than Jose. Managers can be fired but you can't buy character in a player. These players are all about themselves and the fame rather than winning. Yes you can, you just buy players with character. It's one of the things we used to do under Ferguson. We had a lot of average players who made great contributions because Ferguson looked at the character. That shouldn't even be difficult. Mourinhos behaviour has been worse this season than his last season at Chelsea. These players have not given up the way that squad did, then the next season they were excellent I think it's more to do with overall chaos and flux at the club and managers who are constantly creating this narrative, because they are not up to the job including Woodward. There is no leadership or overall management system or philosophy. You end up with the likes of Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho who is off the reservation completely, shooting their mouths off all the time, especially when it starts to go against them and causing this circus. You have different man management, coaches, back room staff and types of players needed every two years. There's more character in that dressing room than the narrative Mourinho is trying to spin, but it's toxic now and chaotic. It's impossible for every player to function at the highest level under that. It's always year two peak and then fuck off!. The complete opposite of what we needed after Van Gaal and Moyes We don't need a mad dog, we need a calm head now to focus on rebuilding the confidence and coach a good playing style. A DOF or head of recruitment to keep the focus on a 3-5 year plan |
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Post by Tatty on Dec 6, 2018 12:20:50 GMT
SACK EVERYONE!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 12:20:54 GMT
Are the owners goons? YES Is Ed the man to deal with footballing and on the pitch affairs? HELL NO Is Mourinho absolved of blame for the debacle of this seaseaon? HELL NO. He is 80% the problem, simply because he picks the team, trains them etc and his negativity all round since the summer definitely had an affect on these players There is little evidence for that |
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Post by GeniusCantona on Dec 6, 2018 12:21:14 GMT
Are the owners goons? YES Is Ed the man to deal with footballing and on the pitch affairs? HELL NO Is Mourinho absolved of blame for the debacle of this seaseaon? HELL NO. He is 80% the problem, simply because he picks the team, trains them etc and his negativity all round since the summer definitely had an affect on these players When Jose eventually leaves and succeeds elsewhere then everyone will realize that the owners are 100% of the problem. Unlike our previous two managers, Jose isn’t afraid to point at the real issues and where the club’s priorities are. The commercial culture at the club will always undermine any manager here because the players will feel their bigger than the manager and the club itself. |
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Post by _ on Dec 6, 2018 12:25:20 GMT
What's even more frightening is that Leicester, Brighton and Watford are within striking distance of us in the table. If we don't put away Fulham on Saturday, then lose away at Anfield it's more than likely we could end up in the bottom half of the table. Terrifying. Yeah This is where we are at now, the League is gone and top 4 is a fantasy too now and we will slip even more. City and the Dippers are competing for the title and Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal are in a pack for 3 and 4 I'd say it will be City, Dippers, Spurs and Chelsea in that order and Arsenal 5th We are in the race for the 6th spot and the Europa League again with about 6 teams and anyone who thinks it's different is deluded. |
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