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Post by GeniusCantona on Dec 6, 2018 19:29:51 GMT
Ed's comments about commercial opportunities while not winning holding true to form. What a fucking prick. If this was South American football he'd already be dead.
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Post by juanveron on Dec 6, 2018 19:35:45 GMT
From the article... "The last of his skills to desert Mourinho, perhaps, is his capacity to inspire his loyalists and convince them it isn’t his fault, not when the board, the players and the media are there to be blamed." You come across as a loyalist...as pretty much everyone on here has said, the board and Ed are also to blame but as yez mentioned, Jose is the one picking, training (?), coaching (??) and motivating (  ) the team... Another manager could have us higher in the table with the same squad...Jose seems to have a different agenda... Again Jose is a problem but he isn't THE problem. You can switch managers all you like but when some of the players are empowered by the notion that they hold commercial value to the Club then you have a new rot at the Club, which any good manager would have difficulty dealing with. There is no simple solution here. Would there be a bump in form, if we brought in someone like Jardim? Possibly, yes. But the problems that are showing in some of the "key" players in this squad aren't necessarily going to go away. What's been exposed over the past few months is that we have a number of players who are cowards and lack character in this squad. 100%. Jose is and was a wrong fit for us and a different manager could very well do better, but would he win the league? Unlikely. The root problem with the club is the culture that our CEO and owners have created. It's no longer focused on being a successful football club. Players used to join us because they really wanted to play for Manchester United, making a lot of money was just an added bonus. Today it's all about the money, and it shows. I found myself wondering how clubs like Chelsea, City, and PSG that were injected with crazy money and at first only had that to use to attract players became so successful, while we have also spent a sickening amount of money and achieved nothing, and I realized the one thing that is so different between us and them - when the new owners came to these clubs the entire focus was on achieving success and winning silverware, the culture was completely focused on that goal. Not on commercial revenue, but on trophies. Our owners could literally not care any less if we win, lose or draw as long as they can continue to milk the cow, their investment in recent years was motivated by that goal alone. |
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Post by JamBritRed on Dec 6, 2018 20:08:25 GMT
i surely hope i'm not the only one who sees the parallels with 3 years ago.....
1) Mourinho has his usual slump in his second year (then with Chelsea),
2) He has a top side sending signals that they want him to take over at their team and they have resources (at the time MUFC, now Real)
3) He then proceeds to piss off his players and executives to eventually get released from his contract and be free for the new, shiny, rich club.
it's so transparent.
but then he obviously didnt factor DickEd (scouse-borrowing that name, sorry) being too thick/weak to relieve him of his position.
expect this rubbish to go on till at least February. i don't see Jose resigning, but if he were to resign, he'd do it after the January transfer window to ensure that the club couldn't use the January transfer window to recover.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 20:52:59 GMT
i surely hope i'm not the only one who sees the parallels with 3 years ago..... 1) Mourinho has his usual slump in his second year (then with Chelsea), 2) He has a top side sending signals that they want him to take over at their team and they have resources (at the time MUFC, now Real) 3) He then proceeds to piss off his players and executives to eventually get released from his contract and be free for the new, shiny, rich club. it's so transparent. but then he obviously didnt factor DickEd (scouse-borrowing that name, sorry) being too thick/weak to relieve him of his position. expect this rubbish to go on till at least February. i don't see Jose resigning, but if he were to resign, he'd do it after the January transfer window to ensure that the club couldn't use the January transfer window to recover. Yeah, this 3rd season was always going to happen. He just meltsdown. He started the meltdown before the season even started. We were fucked before the kick off of the first game. |
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Post by Karma on Dec 6, 2018 21:15:52 GMT
Remember when City first come into money and they were being laughed at ? They were being linked with Kaka, Robinhio obviously not realising what he'd signed up for, Berbatov swerving them after they showed interest?
Chucking money at everyone and anything , trying to get themselves taken seriously?
Their commander in chief Gary Cook being mocked and making an arse of himself?
Hmmm, parallels!
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Post by . on Dec 6, 2018 22:11:17 GMT
Some really good points being made.
There wasn't so much vocal dissent at the Palace game at Old Trafford, more fans voting with their feet in not turning up. I think i commented in the match day thread that there was a shit-load of empty seats most certainly in the Sir Alex Ferguson Stand.
I agree with Karma, if the home support aren't bothering it's going to have a gradual effect on the brand.
The away fans will turn up but if the supporters at home aren't arsed, then games at Old Trafford combining empty seats with dire football it's going to be totally damaging to them (doesn't look good for the brand on live TV)- the hirearchy may still feel everything is hunky-dory but in reality it's a turd.
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Post by alwaysUnited on Dec 7, 2018 8:18:01 GMT
Again Jose is a problem but he isn't THE problem. You can switch managers all you like but when some of the players are empowered by the notion that they hold commercial value to the Club then you have a new rot at the Club, which any good manager would have difficulty dealing with. There is no simple solution here. Would there be a bump in form, if we brought in someone like Jardim? Possibly, yes. But the problems that are showing in some of the "key" players in this squad aren't necessarily going to go away. What's been exposed over the past few months is that we have a number of players who are cowards and lack character in this squad. 100%. Jose is and was a wrong fit for us and a different manager could very well do better, but would he win the league? Unlikely. The root problem with the club is the culture that our CEO and owners have created. It's no longer focused on being a successful football club. Players used to join us because they really wanted to play for Manchester United, making a lot of money was just an added bonus. Today it's all about the money, and it shows. I found myself wondering how clubs like Chelsea, City, and PSG that were injected with crazy money and at first only had that to use to attract players became so successful, while we have also spent a sickening amount of money and achieved nothing, and I realized the one thing that is so different between us and them - when the new owners came to these clubs the entire focus was on achieving success and winning silverware, the culture was completely focused on that goal. Not on commercial revenue, but on trophies. Our owners could literally not care any less if we win, lose or draw as long as they can continue to milk the cow, their investment in recent years was motivated by that goal alone. I agree with what you are saying ,and in long term we do need a competent dof , but manager and attitude of players makes a huge difference. Real madrid is run without any sort of long term philosophy or planning but they seem to do pretty well. So does chelsea. These clubs hire and fire managers for fun and still manage to be successful. liverpool themselves were not doing so great until klopp turned up (i know they are yet to win anything but improvement is clear). Fergie himself didnt have world class talents in squad in his last season , didnt stop him from winning the league right ? Dont get me wrong i would prefer to have owners who care for the club and a competent ceo , but thats realistically not gonna happen soon , manager can be changed. Hopefully we get this right this time ! |
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Post by juanveron on Dec 7, 2018 10:05:09 GMT
100%. Jose is and was a wrong fit for us and a different manager could very well do better, but would he win the league? Unlikely. The root problem with the club is the culture that our CEO and owners have created. It's no longer focused on being a successful football club. Players used to join us because they really wanted to play for Manchester United, making a lot of money was just an added bonus. Today it's all about the money, and it shows. I found myself wondering how clubs like Chelsea, City, and PSG that were injected with crazy money and at first only had that to use to attract players became so successful, while we have also spent a sickening amount of money and achieved nothing, and I realized the one thing that is so different between us and them - when the new owners came to these clubs the entire focus was on achieving success and winning silverware, the culture was completely focused on that goal. Not on commercial revenue, but on trophies. Our owners could literally not care any less if we win, lose or draw as long as they can continue to milk the cow, their investment in recent years was motivated by that goal alone. I agree with what you are saying ,and in long term we do need a competent dof , but manager and attitude of players makes a huge difference. Real madrid is run without any sort of long term philosophy or planning but they seem to do pretty well. So does chelsea. These clubs hire and fire managers for fun and still manage to be successful. liverpool themselves were not doing so great until klopp turned up (i know they are yet to win anything but improvement is clear). Fergie himself didnt have world class talents in squad in his last season , didnt stop him from winning the league right ? Dont get me wrong i would prefer to have owners who care for the club and a competent ceo , but thats realistically not gonna happen soon , manager can be changed. Hopefully we get this right this time ! I hate Chelsea, they're the harbingers of pretty much everything that's gone wrong with football in the modern age, but since the day that Abramovich took over their entire focus has been on achieving success on the football field. He hires and fires managers as soon as there's even a hint that they'll fail to do so, the same goes for Real Madrid. When Fergie was still our manager our CEO wasn't Woodward, the focus was still on achieving success on the football field. On top of that, Fergie was the best manager in the history of the game - the fact we were so incredibly competitive and still winning league titles after 2010 is 100% on him managing to make a disgustingly average squad and instilling a winning spirit in the players, the biggest contrast between us now and then is that when Fergie was the manager the team was so much bigger than the sum of its parts, today it's the complete opposite - on paper, we have a cracking squad. Is that on Jose? in many ways, yes, but I simply don't think that we can achieve continuous footballing success while Woodward is the one who's dictating what is the prime focus of the club, because for him the prime focus is on commercial sucess, not on footballing success, regardless of who's our manager. |
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Post by Bestie on Dec 7, 2018 10:17:14 GMT
100%. Jose is and was a wrong fit for us and a different manager could very well do better, but would he win the league? Unlikely. The root problem with the club is the culture that our CEO and owners have created. It's no longer focused on being a successful football club. Players used to join us because they really wanted to play for Manchester United, making a lot of money was just an added bonus. Today it's all about the money, and it shows. I found myself wondering how clubs like Chelsea, City, and PSG that were injected with crazy money and at first only had that to use to attract players became so successful, while we have also spent a sickening amount of money and achieved nothing, and I realized the one thing that is so different between us and them - when the new owners came to these clubs the entire focus was on achieving success and winning silverware, the culture was completely focused on that goal. Not on commercial revenue, but on trophies. Our owners could literally not care any less if we win, lose or draw as long as they can continue to milk the cow, their investment in recent years was motivated by that goal alone. I agree with what you are saying ,and in long term we do need a competent dof , but manager and attitude of players makes a huge difference. Real madrid is run without any sort of long term philosophy or planning but they seem to do pretty well. So does chelsea. These clubs hire and fire managers for fun and still manage to be successful. liverpool themselves were not doing so great until klopp turned up (i know they are yet to win anything but improvement is clear). Fergie himself didnt have world class talents in squad in his last season , didnt stop him from winning the league right ? Dont get me wrong i would prefer to have owners who care for the club and a competent ceo , but thats realistically not gonna happen soon , manager can be changed. Hopefully we get this right this time ! Sorry what? |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Dec 7, 2018 10:47:47 GMT
I agree with what you are saying ,and in long term we do need a competent dof , but manager and attitude of players makes a huge difference. Real madrid is run without any sort of long term philosophy or planning but they seem to do pretty well. So does chelsea. These clubs hire and fire managers for fun and still manage to be successful. liverpool themselves were not doing so great until klopp turned up (i know they are yet to win anything but improvement is clear). Fergie himself didnt have world class talents in squad in his last season , didnt stop him from winning the league right ? Sorry what?Dont get me wrong i would prefer to have owners who care for the club and a competent ceo , but thats realistically not gonna happen soon , manager can be changed. Hopefully we get this right this time ! I should have added 'in their peak' , ofcourse van persie was there. But other than that most of them were decent or reaching their end. giggs, rio, evra,scholes all on their wrong side of 30s. |
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