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Post by Stew on Apr 5, 2021 13:04:45 GMT
This is a stretch. However, for argument sake, let’s say you’re correct. Lets say the ridiculous spending power City have, coupled with a manager who has made a career out of hoovering up trophies, means that this season, no manager could take this Utd higher than second. Is that really more than winning the taller than Danny De Vito contest though? To me the real question to ask is- could any manager in the world have this Utd side genuinely challenging City? To really push them, particularly given how the table looked in January? Not beating them but making them sweat, making them nervous, looking over their shoulders, having to win it in the final game or two, like Klopp has done on a number of occasions? And if your answer to that is still no, then I’m not sure what to say really. Patronising as ever. What the table looked like in January is a credit to Ole and not a stick to beat him with. The sad reality is that with 15-16 players to choose from we can push City for half a season, which is what we did. Our thin squad is fucked. Perhaps we could have lasted a bit longer with a proper pre-season, but we had about three weeks of preparation. All the other contenders are being excused here for injuries and change of managers, and for some reason there appears to be a consensus here that Ole had an ideal scenario to actually win the league this season.
I went out of my way to not patronise or insult you, despite the nonsensical statement you made which I put in bold. |
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Post by redcase on Apr 5, 2021 13:05:13 GMT
I do not accept the argument that he has few players to choose from. He's marginalized a gem of a signing. He does not rotate defenders. He's been unable to accommodate our keepers properly. He favors certain players even if they are shit. You cannot continue to ignore these arguments against him. He also marginalized Telles. A no-brainer of a signing according to many of us on here who turned out to be a bit shit, a.k.a. the most expensive kick in the arse in the history of the club. Ole sees the players on the training ground to know better than any of us why Tuanzebe doesn't get more games, or why VDB doesn't get a sniff. In fact, it's for all of us to see about the latter who has failed to make any impact when he did get a chance.
Perma-crocked Bailly and Tuanzebe, underwhelming Telles, a slow start for VDB, Cavani is injured/unsettled and a has-been in Matic leave very little to work with. Add the fact that Rashford and Lindelof play while carrying injuries and Pogba doesn't want to be here and Ole's cards are far from ideal. Yet somehow we are expected to push City for title, ignoring the fact they have two-50m players for every position
So what you're saying is if a guy prefers bringing down a tree with a rusted axe rather than a brand new chainsaw it's the chainsaw's fault. Not the man's fault who doesn't know, nor want to learn how to use the chainsaw. And when he uses the chainsaw incorrectly, and it malfucntions, it's again the chainsaw's fault, and not the idiot who doesn't know how to use it? Good logic. Tuanzebe and Telles haven't even been used as much to call them underwhelming. If you expect players to play well immediately after sitting idle for weeks, I'm going to have to break it to you that football, or any team sport, doesn't work that way. Players need game time. Add to this fact that our manager is utterly shit as a tactician, the performances on the pitch clearly show that there's absolutely no gameplan in place which would enable a roleplayer to do as asked. If Ole's cards are far from ideal I expect him to not bullshit the fans. Yet every presser he speaks like they've got their hand up his arse moving his mouth for him. It all circles back to the manager. Also, I want to win. Coming second/third/fourth year upon year means fuckall to me and most other United fans. I'm used to winning, the club makes enough money to act like a winning club, and I want a manager who wants to fucking win. Let's be clear we are not some mid level club with budget constraints, we are being run into the ground. If this football club can't be bothered to win, I'd rather it just fold and cease to exist. |
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Post by redcase on Apr 5, 2021 13:06:28 GMT
The others werent prepared to put up with it though. They knew they could not afford to fail. Despite Jose and LVGs questionable time at the club, they still won trophies. Ole on the other hand is treated in an entirely different manner by the club and his friends in the media. Criticism is rare in the main media groups. You can only judge Ole or any coach on the players he has and what he gets out of them, but you will never convince me, that a semi competent coach couldnt avoid getting outplayed tactically by Brighton for nearly an hour with this squad. If we are cash strapped then we need a better coach to squeeze every ounce out of what we have. Rashford being a perfect example, its very obvious where his strengths and weaknesses are, yet we never see those issues being addressed. All the talk of Haaland is fucking hillarious and Im pretty sure we will go into another campaign with Ole, this squad and the same old rubbish. These are Rashford's stats:
Season Apps Goals
2015–16 18 8
2016–17 53 11
2017–18 52 13
2018–19 47 13
2019–20 44 22
2020–21 46 19
I think they are indeed a perfect example to Ole's work. I'm sure Luke Shaw's and Fred's also tell a story. And McT's. Fair play to Jose for sticking a finger in the Glazers' eyes, but that's not what I want our manager to do. They are his employers, and there was no surprise about their conduct (or his). When a manager is appointed he is supposed to do the best with what he has instead of using it as an alibi for failure. Don't get me wrong, it was great seeing that City reject miss an open goal right at the death to see us through to Stockholm, but for me consistently improving on league campaigns while integrating young academy players and the odd shrewd signing is far more exciting than paying 100's of millions for beating Rostov, Zoriya and Celta Vigo.
What even in the actual fuck is this shit  |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Apr 5, 2021 13:15:30 GMT
This is a stretch. However, for argument sake, let’s say you’re correct. Lets say the ridiculous spending power City have, coupled with a manager who has made a career out of hoovering up trophies, means that this season, no manager could take this Utd higher than second. Is that really more than winning the taller than Danny De Vito contest though? To me the real question to ask is- could any manager in the world have this Utd side genuinely challenging City? To really push them, particularly given how the table looked in January? Not beating them but making them sweat, making them nervous, looking over their shoulders, having to win it in the final game or two, like Klopp has done on a number of occasions? And if your answer to that is still no, then I’m not sure what to say really. Patronising as ever.
What the table looked like in January is a credit to Ole and not a stick to beat him with. The sad reality is that with 15-16 players to choose from we can push City for half a season, which is what we did. Our thin squad is fucked. Perhaps we could have lasted a bit longer with a proper pre-season, but we had about three weeks of preparation. All the other contenders are being excused here for injuries and change of managers, and for some reason there appears to be a consensus here that Ole had an ideal scenario to actually win the league this season.
All of this. Just a reminder of the our predicted positions , most were saying 5 to 7th (including myself !) , but now we are comfortably 2nd and on way to scoring more goals and points (except Jose 2nd) than any season post Fergie , this is is suddenly a disaster and manger needs to go. republikofmanc.proboards.com/thread/27007/where-finish-2020-21-season |
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Post by Stew on Apr 5, 2021 13:20:46 GMT
Patronising as ever. What the table looked like in January is a credit to Ole and not a stick to beat him with. The sad reality is that with 15-16 players to choose from we can push City for half a season, which is what we did. Our thin squad is fucked. Perhaps we could have lasted a bit longer with a proper pre-season, but we had about three weeks of preparation. All the other contenders are being excused here for injuries and change of managers, and for some reason there appears to be a consensus here that Ole had an ideal scenario to actually win the league this season.
All of this. Just a reminder of the our predicted positions , most were saying 5 to 7th (including myself !) , but now we are comfortably 2nd and on way to scoring more goals and points (except Jose 2nd) than any season post Fergie , this is is suddenly a disaster and manger needs to go. republikofmanc.proboards.com/thread/27007/where-finish-2020-21-seasonHave I stumbled upon the Republik of Evertonia by mistake? |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Apr 5, 2021 13:25:37 GMT
He also marginalized Telles. A no-brainer of a signing according to many of us on here who turned out to be a bit shit, a.k.a. the most expensive kick in the arse in the history of the club. Ole sees the players on the training ground to know better than any of us why Tuanzebe doesn't get more games, or why VDB doesn't get a sniff. In fact, it's for all of us to see about the latter who has failed to make any impact when he did get a chance.
Perma-crocked Bailly and Tuanzebe, underwhelming Telles, a slow start for VDB, Cavani is injured/unsettled and a has-been in Matic leave very little to work with. Add the fact that Rashford and Lindelof play while carrying injuries and Pogba doesn't want to be here and Ole's cards are far from ideal. Yet somehow we are expected to push City for title, ignoring the fact they have two-50m players for every position
So what you're saying is if a guy prefers bringing down a tree with a rusted axe rather than a brand new chainsaw it's the chainsaw's fault. Not the man's fault who doesn't know, nor want to learn how to use the chainsaw. And when he uses the chainsaw incorrectly, and it malfucntions, it's again the chainsaw's fault, and not the idiot who doesn't know how to use it? Good logic. Tuanzebe and Telles haven't even been used as much to call them underwhelming. If you expect players to play well immediately after sitting idle for weeks, I'm going to have to break it to you that football, or any team sport, doesn't work that way. Players need game time. Add to this fact that our manager is utterly shit as a tactician, the performances on the pitch clearly show that there's absolutely no gameplan in place which would enable a roleplayer to do as asked. If Ole's cards are far from ideal I expect him to not bullshit the fans. Yet every presser he speaks like they've got their hand up his arse moving his mouth for him. It all circles back to the manager. Also, I want to win. Coming second/third/fourth year upon year means fuckall to me and most other United fans. I'm used to winning, the club makes enough money to act like a winning club, and I want a manager who wants to fucking win. Let's be clear we are not some mid level club with budget constraints, we are being run into the ground. If this football club can't be bothered to win, I'd rather it just fold and cease to exist. This is the part where we bring in better players like a big club does |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Apr 5, 2021 13:32:55 GMT
All of this. Just a reminder of the our predicted positions , most were saying 5 to 7th (including myself !) , but now we are comfortably 2nd and on way to scoring more goals and points (except Jose 2nd) than any season post Fergie , this is is suddenly a disaster and manger needs to go. republikofmanc.proboards.com/thread/27007/where-finish-2020-21-seasonHave I stumbled upon the Republik of Evertonia by mistake? No one says that is good enough , but being Manchester United and all our glorious history is not going to help the manger win matches now. Its a simple thing , If we need to compete at the highest level , we need better players. Players which those greedy parasites in florida and that clown ed has to deliver to Ole. |
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Post by Stew on Apr 5, 2021 13:34:54 GMT
So what you're saying is if a guy prefers bringing down a tree with a rusted axe rather than a brand new chainsaw it's the chainsaw's fault. Not the man's fault who doesn't know, nor want to learn how to use the chainsaw. And when he uses the chainsaw incorrectly, and it malfucntions, it's again the chainsaw's fault, and not the idiot who doesn't know how to use it? Good logic. Tuanzebe and Telles haven't even been used as much to call them underwhelming. If you expect players to play well immediately after sitting idle for weeks, I'm going to have to break it to you that football, or any team sport, doesn't work that way. Players need game time. Add to this fact that our manager is utterly shit as a tactician, the performances on the pitch clearly show that there's absolutely no gameplan in place which would enable a roleplayer to do as asked. If Ole's cards are far from ideal I expect him to not bullshit the fans. Yet every presser he speaks like they've got their hand up his arse moving his mouth for him. It all circles back to the manager. Also, I want to win. Coming second/third/fourth year upon year means fuckall to me and most other United fans. I'm used to winning, the club makes enough money to act like a winning club, and I want a manager who wants to fucking win. Let's be clear we are not some mid level club with budget constraints, we are being run into the ground. If this football club can't be bothered to win, I'd rather it just fold and cease to exist. This is the part where we bring in better players like a big club does Ultimately, I think this all comes down to whether or not you think Ole is the best manager out there when it comes to dealing with a series of limitations imposed upon him by a dreadful board. Even though I’m critical of Ole, I don’t actually think he’s been too bad. He’s lucky in a sense he has Bruno but then again so is Klopp with Salah and Pep with KDB. But I cannot pretend that there isn’t better managers in the world equipped to maximise the resources we have, which although far from perfect, aren’t as bad as they seem during a lot of games, despite Bruno or Rashford bailing us out. Why do we always start so slowly? Why are we a shambles at set pieces? Why does he pick Lindelof? Why can’t AWB cross? There are many more and Bruno can only paper over so much. In a peculiar way, Ole and Maguire are really similar. I quite like Maguire, I think people are too harsh and he’s a decent defender. He’s nowhere near the best CB in Europe, not even close, so he’s a pale imitation of some of the players we’ve had in the past. Ole is the same as a manager for me. Honest, hard working but ultimately short of genuine class despite whatever hopes we might have as fans. |
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Post by Stew on Apr 5, 2021 13:36:40 GMT
Have I stumbled upon the Republik of Evertonia by mistake? No one says that is good enough , but being Manchester United and all our glorious history is not going to help the manger win matches now. Its a simple thing , If we need to compete at the highest level , we need better players. Players which those greedy parasites in florida and that clown ed has to deliver to Ole. He’s needs to start putting pressure on them then, even gently. Because until he does he’ll just come across as being happy to have the job rather than achieving anything in it. And they won’t hesitate to turn on him when the time comes. |
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Post by Bestie on Apr 5, 2021 14:56:35 GMT
The others werent prepared to put up with it though. They knew they could not afford to fail. Despite Jose and LVGs questionable time at the club, they still won trophies. Ole on the other hand is treated in an entirely different manner by the club and his friends in the media. Criticism is rare in the main media groups. You can only judge Ole or any coach on the players he has and what he gets out of them, but you will never convince me, that a semi competent coach couldnt avoid getting outplayed tactically by Brighton for nearly an hour with this squad. If we are cash strapped then we need a better coach to squeeze every ounce out of what we have. Rashford being a perfect example, its very obvious where his strengths and weaknesses are, yet we never see those issues being addressed. All the talk of Haaland is fucking hillarious and Im pretty sure we will go into another campaign with Ole, this squad and the same old rubbish. These are Rashford's stats:
Season Apps Goals
2015–16 18 8
2016–17 53 11
2017–18 52 13
2018–19 47 13
2019–20 44 22
2020–21 46 19
I think they are indeed a perfect example to Ole's work. 'Maturing player performs better: Manager clearly a genius.' Oooookay. |
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Post by Bestie on Apr 5, 2021 14:59:57 GMT
... consistently improving on league campaigns while integrating young academy players and the odd shrewd signing is far more exciting than paying 100's of millions for beating Rostov, Zoriya and Celta Vigo. I know what you mean. Fuck sake everybody else, football isn't about winning trophies and glory. It's about being irrelevant in the title race by March just as long as we have academy players in the team. |
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Post by smithy2 on Apr 5, 2021 16:28:38 GMT
The others werent prepared to put up with it though. They knew they could not afford to fail. Despite Jose and LVGs questionable time at the club, they still won trophies. Ole on the other hand is treated in an entirely different manner by the club and his friends in the media. Criticism is rare in the main media groups. You can only judge Ole or any coach on the players he has and what he gets out of them, but you will never convince me, that a semi competent coach couldnt avoid getting outplayed tactically by Brighton for nearly an hour with this squad. If we are cash strapped then we need a better coach to squeeze every ounce out of what we have. Rashford being a perfect example, its very obvious where his strengths and weaknesses are, yet we never see those issues being addressed. All the talk of Haaland is fucking hillarious and Im pretty sure we will go into another campaign with Ole, this squad and the same old rubbish. These are Rashford's stats:
Season Apps Goals
2015–16 18 8
2016–17 53 11
2017–18 52 13
2018–19 47 13
2019–20 44 22
2020–21 46 19
I think they are indeed a perfect example to Ole's work. I'm sure Luke Shaw's and Fred's also tell a story. And McT's. Fair play to Jose for sticking a finger in the Glazers' eyes, but that's not what I want our manager to do. They are his employers, and there was no surprise about their conduct (or his). When a manager is appointed he is supposed to do the best with what he has instead of using it as an alibi for failure. Don't get me wrong, it was great seeing that City reject miss an open goal right at the death to see us through to Stockholm, but for me consistently improving on league campaigns while integrating young academy players and the odd shrewd signing is far more exciting than paying 100's of millions for beating Rostov, Zoriya and Celta Vigo.
We're giving Ole credit for Rashford improving his goal tally from being a 17 year old in the league to now 23? |
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Post by johnboy14 on Apr 5, 2021 16:45:44 GMT
These are Rashford's stats:
Season Apps Goals
2015–16 18 8
2016–17 53 11
2017–18 52 13
2018–19 47 13
2019–20 44 22
2020–21 46 19
I think they are indeed a perfect example to Ole's work. 'Maturing player performs better: Manager clearly a genius.' Oooookay. Hes been poor for me this year on many ocassions, hes had his moments but this season has been identical to last season for me, quality up to xmas, goes stale and gets injured by the end of it. He cocks up more chances than he takes and most of them are easy chances, Ole was a great finisher yet most of the striking talent at the club struggle in front of goal. Ole was one of the best movers around, yet our strikers love running across defenders and straight lines. Hes given them more game time but theres no fucking coaching going on. Sure Rashford is moved around the front line like a cheap packet of cigarettes around a jail. Hes a left sided striker, any dim wit can see that. |
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Post by oscared on Apr 5, 2021 17:53:26 GMT
'Maturing player performs better: Manager clearly a genius.' Oooookay. Hes been poor for me this year on many ocassions, hes had his moments but this season has been identical to last season for me, quality up to xmas, goes stale and gets injured by the end of it. He cocks up more chances than he takes and most of them are easy chances, Ole was a great finisher yet most of the striking talent at the club struggle in front of goal. Ole was one of the best movers around, yet our strikers love running across defenders and straight lines. Hes given them more game time but theres no fucking coaching going on. Sure Rashford is moved around the front line like a cheap packet of cigarettes around a jail. Hes a left sided striker, any dim wit can see that. We’ve got Lindelof a CB that can’t head a ball, let that sink in...you will them realise that having forwards that don’t score enough isn’t strange under Ole, add wingers that rarely get a decent cross in while we are at it. |
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Post by Kojak on Apr 5, 2021 18:59:17 GMT
Nowt to do with the Ole stuff this, but I don’t think Telles has looked bad. He’s done absolutely nowt wrong, never looks like getting exposed defensively when he plays. He’s just got the best LB in the league this season in front of him.
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