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Post by Stretty on Apr 5, 2021 19:08:37 GMT
Nowt to do with the Ole stuff this, but I don’t think Telles has looked bad. He’s done absolutely nowt wrong, never looks like getting exposed defensively when he plays. He’s just got the best LB in the league this season in front of him. both telles and VDB have been used poorly all season. |
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Post by smithy2 on Apr 5, 2021 20:48:11 GMT
Lingards turned into Berbatov since leaving us. Where does Ole fit in there?
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Post by viking22 on Apr 5, 2021 21:30:08 GMT
Ole is good at keeping players and owners happy. That (and Bruno) is the main reason he's survived longer than LVG and Jose. Worth remembering they both won trophies with a much weaker squads while also achieving top 4 finishes before the players downed tools.
You'd expect some players to improve simply because a different man management style and different tactics will suit some players better. And young players (e.g. Rashford, McT) and players new to the Premier League (e.g. Fred) will naturally improve when they are given sufficient game time.
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Post by dazjoe on Apr 5, 2021 21:35:44 GMT
The whole "Ole in or Ole out?" question has been beaten to death by a gang with pointy sticks and set on fire by now. But it's never going to go away until he's either gone, or wins the league/Champions League.
I'm firmly in the Ole Out camp but I get the arguments about why he's doing a good job under the circumstances and should be given more time.
Stew has it spot on for me when he simply points out, are there better managers around than Ole, who would do a better job than him at the moment? If the answer is yes (and the answer is yes) then keeping him is clearly settling for 2nd best. Which isn't good enough. Obviously we can't get Pep or Klopp, but there are others. Allegri has 6 titles, 4 domestic cups (all 4 being consecutive doubles) and the highest win percentage in the history of Juventus. And while he sits unemployed we chunder along with Ole in charge.
You can point out the performances of certain players under him, but honestly, Shaw is the only one who I give him real credit for. Rashford and McTominay have improved, but how much of that is down to Ole's coaching and how much is simply due to them being 20/21 year olds getting a lot of first team exposure and improving when they're 23/24? That's just what young players do. Fred also, yup he's certainly come on, but again, how much is that down to him adapting to life in England, the Premier League, etc?
Also, what about others? Martial has gone to absolute shit. De Gea started his drop off in form under Jose, but Ole certainly hasn't turned it around; he's gotten worse and worse. AWB is absolutely no better than he was at Palace. James is still a headless runner. Not one of our centre backs has managed to perform to their very best the whole time under Ole. At least Jose had Jones and Rojo doing well. Van Gaal saw Smalling play the best football of his career. Can you say the same for any of the current lot?
His substitutions are a joke also. How many games are we needing a goal and not made a change until the 80th minute onwards? The rare times he has made early changes (Southampton and West Ham away) the subs have turned the game for us. No part of his brain putting two and two together there? And the less said about his 89th minute VDB subs the better.
On VDB, the guy is very clearly a centre midfielder. Not a number 10. Pogba has missed chunks of the season. What a chance to give him game time, in his preferred position, and meaning United still have a ball playing deep midfielder. And did he? Nope, it's Fred and McTominay offering nothing from an attacking perspective with VDB only getting the odd, rare chance as a number 10, which again, is not his position. And then he gets criticised for under performing.
His record in the transfer market is patchy, at best. 7 players signed for the first team squad (AWB, Telles, Maguire, VDB, Cavani, Bruno, James; so not counting the youngsters he's brought in) and of those only Bruno can be classed as a definite success.
There are too many questions over his head that have nothing to do with the owners or Ed. They don't coach the players, they don't make subs, they don't pick the team, they don't decide tactics. He does. And he isn't doing well enough with any of those.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Apr 5, 2021 22:10:45 GMT
This is pretty crazy in fairness. It doesn’t account for a lot of needless draws though. And somehow the 6-1 loss to Spurs was arguably the least frustrating of the four, as at least you knew fairly quickly we were fucked. I still get angry about Sheffield United.
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Post by Bestie on Apr 6, 2021 0:21:43 GMT
Lingards turned into Berbatov since leaving us. Where does Ole fit in there? That's an insult to Dimitar Berbatov and I demand you retract it immediately. You shall be hearing from my second Monsieur. |
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Post by kstandhand on Apr 6, 2021 6:30:29 GMT
This is pretty crazy in fairness. It doesn’t account for a lot of needless draws though. And somehow the 6-1 loss to Spurs was arguably the least frustrating of the four, as at least you knew fairly quickly we were fucked. I still get angry about Sheffield United. Another pointless stat,the only one that carries any credibility is the one that say's we are 14 points behind City which is nowhere near good enough. |
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Post by Chris on Apr 6, 2021 8:52:46 GMT
This is pretty crazy in fairness. It doesn’t account for a lot of needless draws though. And somehow the 6-1 loss to Spurs was arguably the least frustrating of the four, as at least you knew fairly quickly we were fucked. I still get angry about Sheffield United. It is a good stat, but we play with a back 6 so it's not surprising that we don't lose many. |
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Post by oscared on Apr 6, 2021 9:47:12 GMT
Ole is over achieving, its not good enough to be a United manager but its good for him.
We are in a false position as apart from City other teams have been beating each other, its about being consistent and we haven't been.
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Post by kstandhand on Apr 6, 2021 10:28:03 GMT
Bruno Fernandes: "We’re doing better. We can’t drop as many points as we do at home, but we’ve been in second, and at the start of the season there weren’t many people who were saying #mufc would be second." #mulive [fourfourtwo]
OGS's mentality clearly impacting Bruno's thinking.
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Post by Bestie on Apr 6, 2021 10:32:14 GMT
Bruno Fernandes: "We’re doing better. We can’t drop as many points as we do at home, but we’ve been in second, and at the start of the season there weren’t many people who were saying #mufc would be second." #mulive [fourfourtwo] OGS's mentality clearly impacting Bruno's thinking. Everyone on the same PR brainwashing page. |
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Post by viking22 on Apr 6, 2021 11:58:14 GMT
Yeah I think it is a case of Ole being a fairly safe pair of hands now he's settled into the job. He keeps the players happy so they are unlikely to down tools. And our squad is currently good enough to finish in the top 4 without requiring best in class management and trophies no longer seem to matter. Chopping and changing managers for the sake of it a la Chelsea isn't the best approach. Nor is our historical strategy of only making the change when we fall out of top 4 at which point we end up pretty limited in terms of potential replacements.
There are better managers out there. The question is whether they'd be a better fit especially as the Glazers won't provide much backing in the transfer market which makes it difficult for a new manager to play the way he wants and rules out coaches with a distinct philosophy/style. And the other question is whether they'd want to join and accept all the constraints involved.
Pochettino seemed like a great choice at one time. But it is a little worrying how quickly Spurs fell apart once they really starting to look like they could challenge for trophies. Obviously it didn't help that he wasn't given money to spend. But he'd face the same issue here. Might be worth waiting to see if he can turn things around at PSG. But not sure he is the right guy.
Allegri would be a perfect choice if our owners actually wanted to spend some serious money and win trophies and challenge for the title. But I cannot see him being willing to operate under the constraints in place. And like Jose he has a preference for more experienced players while the Glazers prefer younger and cheaper.
Nagelsmann is obviously the next big thing and won't stay at Leipzig for much longer. He hasn't won anything of note yet. But neither has Ole. My main concern would be he has a strong philosophy and we probably need someone who will adapt to the players we have as there isn't going to be the backing to bring in the players he might need to make his system work.
So I dunno really.
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Post by GeniusCantona on Apr 6, 2021 12:34:46 GMT
This is pretty crazy in fairness. It doesn’t account for a lot of needless draws though. And somehow the 6-1 loss to Spurs was arguably the least frustrating of the four, as at least you knew fairly quickly we were fucked. I still get angry about Sheffield United. I think the record is overstated and I can understand why guys like Mitten want to grasp onto something to show progress but it completely ignores the fact we’ve played in empty stadiums. For example, we’e recovered 25 points from losing positions, which in a normal season would be impressive. However in a normal season I don’t think we’d be that successful. Just imagine this lot going down 2 nil away from home with supporters hurling abuse at them and the stadium jumping. While I can imagine some like Bruno, Rashford, Mason, McT or Shaw stepping up in those situations, I can see others pissing themselves, our CBs for example. I mean second “yay!” but the true measure of progress will be next season when we anticipate a return of supporters to stadiums then we’ll see what these bottlers are made of. |
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Post by Karma on Apr 6, 2021 13:50:20 GMT
Thank god I’m blocked from Andy Mitten.
Old Trafford could crumble from lack of investment and he would probably try and put a positive spin on it.
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