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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Apr 28, 2023 9:42:36 GMT
I'd invite anyone who thinks no progress has been made to look at the season predictions thread and see where we thought we would be compared to where we are. Fun fact about those threads - this is the fifth season I've done them and, if we get top four this year, then as a group we will collectively have predicted whether or not we get top four wrong every single time across those five seasons.
The minimum 'progress' was always two trophies and third. We have one trophy, in the final of another but are scrabbling fourth almost by default (Chelsea hiring Potter, Liverpool imploding, Arsenal inexplicably being top instead of fighting for fourth). We will see how the season finishes. I'm curious whether that minimum "progress" bar was set at the start of the season? Considering we finished 6th last year, with a GD of zero and no trophy since 2017, "progress" to me was qualifying for the CL, with a trophy being a bonus. If we manage to finish 3rd, and win the league cup only, then I'd still say there's progress - we are, for the most part, playing better football and I can see the side developing some sort of identity. Of course there's a mental fragility there, but it takes time to build that self-belief. If we win the League Cup + FA Cup and finish 3rd, I think it's fair to say any expectations will have been surpassed. ETH has made some questionabile in-game changes, but the squad is paper thin and he's stuck with a few free-loaders too. I think next season will be big, especially after having the summer to cull the deadwood and bring in 2/3 top quality starters. We've essentially played without a striker this season. |
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Post by ratbag on Apr 28, 2023 10:01:57 GMT
So, I went to the game last night... We were definitely in control in the first half and dreadful in the second... Some of the players (most of them) seemed to be off the pace and looking leggy... We should have killed them off and we didn't...and that gave Spurs the impetus to come back at us... A couple of observations... The away fans singing was as excellent as usual...singing to Harry 'well see you in June!'...  The stadium is awesome! Great facilities, good food and the world's longest bar...makes OT really look its age... Weghorst is such a waste of space, it's frightening... I was NOT in the away end and when Sancho scored all I could say out loud was 'Oh my god!'...and when Rashford scored I nearly jumped up and cheered...wouldn't have gone down well...I was halfway up and realised where I was...had to manage with a fist pump and not saying a word... I am so looking forward to getting shot of some of those chancers when Sheikh Jassim buys us... |
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Post by Bestie on Apr 28, 2023 10:06:11 GMT
The minimum 'progress' was always two trophies and third. We have one trophy, in the final of another but are scrabbling fourth almost by default (Chelsea hiring Potter, Liverpool imploding, Arsenal inexplicably being top instead of fighting for fourth). We will see how the season finishes. I'm curious whether that minimum "progress" bar was set at the start of the season? Considering we finished 6th last year, with a GD of zero and no trophy since 2017, "progress" to me was qualifying for the CL, with a trophy being a bonus. If we manage to finish 3rd, and win the league cup only, then I'd still say there's progress - we are, for the most part, playing better football and I can see the side developing some sort of identity. Of course there's a mental fragility there, but it takes time to build that self-belief. If we win the League Cup + FA Cup and finish 3rd, I think it's fair to say any expectations will have been surpassed. ETH has made some questionabile in-game changes, but the squad is paper thin and he's stuck with a few free-loaders too. I think next season will be big, especially after having the summer to cull the deadwood and bring in 2/3 top quality starters. We've essentially played without a striker this season. I have been consistent on that minimum bar from day one of ten Hag taking the job. Confident others will confirm that too. If you want to talk about considering things - we were in the title race in January and are now currently fourth. Second in a two horse race for third. As for playing without a striker all season? Who's fault is that. |
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Post by Karma on Apr 28, 2023 10:06:25 GMT
The minimum 'progress' was always two trophies and third. We have one trophy, in the final of another but are scrabbling fourth almost by default (Chelsea hiring Potter, Liverpool imploding, Arsenal inexplicably being top instead of fighting for fourth). We will see how the season finishes. I'm curious whether that minimum "progress" bar was set at the start of the season? Considering we finished 6th last year, with a GD of zero and no trophy since 2017, "progress" to me was qualifying for the CL, with a trophy being a bonus. If we manage to finish 3rd, and win the league cup only, then I'd still say there's progress - we are, for the most part, playing better football and I can see the side developing some sort of identity. Of course there's a mental fragility there, but it takes time to build that self-belief. If we win the League Cup + FA Cup and finish 3rd, I think it's fair to say any expectations will have been surpassed. ETH has made some questionabile in-game changes, but the squad is paper thin and he's stuck with a few free-loaders too. I think next season will be big, especially after having the summer to cull the deadwood and bring in 2/3 top quality starters. We've essentially played without a striker this season. If only he’d realised that apart from Ronaldo we don’t have one ? 🧐 |
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Post by seanie on Apr 28, 2023 11:56:54 GMT
I'd invite anyone who thinks no progress has been made to look at the season predictions thread and see where we thought we would be compared to where we are. Fun fact about those threads - this is the fifth season I've done them and, if we get top four this year, then as a group we will collectively have predicted whether or not we get top four wrong every single time across those five seasons.
The minimum 'progress' was always two trophies and third. We have one trophy, in the final of another but are scrabbling fourth almost by default (Chelsea hiring Potter, Liverpool imploding, Arsenal inexplicably being top instead of fighting for fourth). We will see how the season finishes. I agree with the low bar mediocrity and finishing 3/4th is basic with the Dippers having a terrible season and Chelsea nowhere near it this year, ironically due to another American, who thinks it's Soccer Ball. I hate the excuses, excuses, but we have had a disastrous injury list, a direct result of playing so many games! and it's a record amount of games for any team in the PL era after Jan 1. We have a really shit squad, with a lot of players inherited from previous bad recruitment. He inherited a bad situation with strikers. Greenwood, then Ronaldo wanting to leave and Martial, literally giving 10% through injury or effort. We do not have 1 experienced striker.(Rashford is not a 9) He inherited Sancho too, who has been awful since he arrived apart from the odd moment! Eriksen out for a large part of the season and Casemiro banned for 8 games, just when they were forming a decent partnership! The rest of the midfield options are awful and even McT is injured. There is no top club in Europe, who would still have or ever use McFred in any shape or form. Sabitzer is sixth choice midfield in a not so great Bayern side It's literally all on the owners and the idiots they have running the football club The back four is makeshift now and nowhere near ideal, missing Varane (50% of the season) and Martinez out! and the full backs are poor! Guardiola, won nothing in his first season, without the hectic schedule or injuries and a better team coming third in the PL and didn't even get to a final and don't start on Klopp. They had better owners who corrected it and made it easier going forward eventually! I think he has managed a pretty decent season quite well, but it's hard to judge with the club up for sale, so many injuries and so many players we know should be well gone! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2023 12:01:22 GMT
A couple of really easy cup runs have really masked the reality of this season and the reality is we have made very little progress. Absolutely. Just like those two cup runs in 2016-17 made Jose look like the second coming |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Apr 28, 2023 12:14:53 GMT
I'm curious whether that minimum "progress" bar was set at the start of the season? Considering we finished 6th last year, with a GD of zero and no trophy since 2017, "progress" to me was qualifying for the CL, with a trophy being a bonus. If we manage to finish 3rd, and win the league cup only, then I'd still say there's progress - we are, for the most part, playing better football and I can see the side developing some sort of identity. Of course there's a mental fragility there, but it takes time to build that self-belief. If we win the League Cup + FA Cup and finish 3rd, I think it's fair to say any expectations will have been surpassed. ETH has made some questionabile in-game changes, but the squad is paper thin and he's stuck with a few free-loaders too. I think next season will be big, especially after having the summer to cull the deadwood and bring in 2/3 top quality starters. We've essentially played without a striker this season. I have been consistent on that minimum bar from day one of ten Hag taking the job. Confident others will confirm that too. If you want to talk about considering things - we were in the title race in January and are now currently fourth. Second in a two horse race for third. As for playing without a striker all season? Who's fault is that. I obviously missed the memo on what would constitute progress under a new United manager's first year in charge - but genuinely, kudos for keeping your expectations high given the last decade. 3rd place and two trophies is a pretty tough ask - the best we've done since SAF was two trophies and 6th in the league (16/17), or 1 trophy and 5th place (15/16). To ask a new manager to better anything before him over a decade as a minimum requirement seems hectic! On the CF point, not sure ETH was aware he'd have to dig in the bargain bin for a replacement. Not sure he could have foreseen Greenwood's total implosion as a human being either. I know people seem to clash on the Ronaldo issue, but all I'll say is this - the team played better football when Ronaldo wasn't playing, even in his penultimate season when he was our leading scorer, quite a few players' stats and performances dipped. Tired of the CR7 issue though, let's move on - perhaps it's fair to blame ETH for the lack of options but I'd say the inability to replace him points to the owners. |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Apr 28, 2023 12:22:04 GMT
Out of the managers that have taken charge of United for 50 games or more since SAF, these are their win percentages:
Moyes: 50 games (52.9%)
Van Gaal: 103 games (52.43%)
Mourinho: 144 games (58.33%)
Solskjær: 168 (54.17%)
Ten Hag: 54* games (66.67%)
*This number could stretch to 62 in his first full season, and the percentage may well increase.
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Post by oscared on Apr 28, 2023 12:26:34 GMT
On the whole I think ETH has done ok with the squad available plus the injury and suspensions but isn’t blame free far from it, more recently his subs have backfired badly.
Next season if we get the Qatari’s we’ll see huge changes and pressure will really be on to succeed.
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Post by Paul on Apr 28, 2023 12:31:56 GMT
The problem is this squad is still weak minded. They won a trophy then the performances started dropping, it's like they thought 'we've won a trophy now thats good enough for us". Fatigue can only be used as an excuse for so long by some of them.
We should NEVER be "shutting up shop" at any score. City, Arsenal, the Vermin and even Newcastle don't do it, we shouldn't be either. Even if we're 5-0 up we go for a 6th. Too many of these players do just enough, which isn't good enough.
I do have a bit of sympathy for Ten Hag in respect of the players he has available to him (he'll know some of them aren't good enough). We've got a few key players out so we're left with the dross on the bench. Fred coming on I had no issue with as he's usually reasonably reliable but that completely went to shit.
The only real issue I had at the time was bringing Weghorst on for Antony, it cut our legs off straight away. I never want to see him in a united shirt again and I can't wait to see the back of Martial, he's another fucking waste of space that does less than enough.
Ten Hag does have to own this one but then the players once again gave up when the going got tough. We've seen it all season against the top sides away from home. This has to change next season because our away form has been unforgivable.
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Post by Kojak on Apr 28, 2023 12:45:22 GMT
Why the fuck are people still talking about Ronaldo?
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Apr 28, 2023 14:15:52 GMT
I think there are maximum three managers in the world who would have done better than Ten Hag this season, and not by much.
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Post by unitedsotex on Apr 28, 2023 16:02:33 GMT
I think there are maximum three managers in the world who would have done better than Ten Hag this season, and not by much. I agree and I think our expectation as supporters of the team get in the way from seeing the turn around from the past 10yrs of bs. We always believe we should be winning. It is frustrating to watch us give up these leads or get worked over by teams like Sevilla when we are way more talented |
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Post by Paul on Apr 28, 2023 16:07:55 GMT
I think there are maximum three managers in the world who would have done better than Ten Hag this season, and not by much. At the start of the season most realistic opinions with the state of this squad were top 4 and at least one trophy. That has all but been achieved with the addition of possibly another trophy. I'd say its been a good start for him and the hard work starts in the summer. Of course there have been some unforgivable moments along the way. But this is still a squad that has happily thrown more than one manager under the bus, I'm sure as soon as he's able to replace them he will. Seen so many that are quite happy to note his failings but seem reluctant to give him the credit where its deserved. |
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Post by Bestie on Apr 28, 2023 16:15:45 GMT
Why the fuck are people still talking about Ronaldo? It's because not having a real striker is used as an excuse for bad results. |
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