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Post by DedRevil on May 27, 2024 9:57:46 GMT
IF we'd have lost yesterday as expected, hardly anyone would've said keep the manager, we'd all be talking about finishing 8th with a negative goal difference.
Mad what a one off cup game can do to people.
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Post by Kojak on May 27, 2024 9:58:47 GMT
My big worry is that a style of football still isn’t evident. I’m more bothered about that than the transfers or league position.
However, in that interview with the Dutch press, he said something like “INEOS want to change everything but want to build it with me”.
That suggests that they’ve told him what style they expect, he’s said he can deliver that and they will sign players accordingly.
When he came in initially, we had some disasters trying to play the ball out. I think he bottled it a bit then and either thought that the players weren’t capable of doing that or that you can’t play like that in England. From there he moved to wanting us to be the best side in the world in transitions. To be honest, for a time weren’t far off being that under Ole. We probably regressed from that standpoint.
I think at this point we’ve not got a lot to lose. We can keep him on and see if what’s happened galvanises the squad. When we won the League Cup, there was still two or three months of the season left, we were tired, the squad was stretched, it went flat afterwards. With this being the very end of the season, there’s a chance that the good feeling will carry over.
There’s not much risk for the owners. Sack him now, sack him at Christmas, it’s still costing you money. From their perspective, Southgate will be available if you sack him halfway through the season. Not the move any of us want, but if I was them and I saw that as a potential route forward I’d first go and get a lobotomy and then probably decide to keep Erik on for now.
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Post by Karma on May 27, 2024 10:06:01 GMT
My big worry is that a style of football still isn’t evident. I’m more bothered about that than the transfers or league position. However, in that interview with the Dutch press, he said something like “INEOS want to change everything but want to build it with me”. That suggests that they’ve told him what style they expect, he’s said he can deliver that and they will sign players accordingly. When he came in initially, we had some disasters trying to play the ball out. I think he bottled it a bit then and either thought that the players weren’t capable of doing that or that you can’t play like that in England. From there he moved to wanting us to be the best side in the world in transitions. To be honest, for a time weren’t far off being that under Ole. We probably regressed from that standpoint. I think at this point we’ve not got a lot to lose. We can keep him on and see if what’s happened galvanises the squad. When we won the League Cup, there was still two or three months of the season left, we were tired, the squad was stretched, it went flat afterwards. With this being the very end of the season, there’s a chance that the good feeling will carry over. There’s not much risk for the owners. Sack him now, sack him at Christmas, it’s still costing you money. From their perspective, Southgate will be available if you sack him halfway through the season. Not the move any of us want, but if I was them and I saw that as a potential route forward I’d first go and get a lobotomy and then probably decide to keep Erik on for now. Southgate is actually my biggest concern. If he hadn’t convinced so many he’s the real deal I’d say let ETH have his final season. But my fear is that this unravels once again and our fans could be that desperate that they’ll be more open to that option before the end of the year.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on May 27, 2024 10:06:52 GMT
IF we'd have lost yesterday as expected, hardly anyone would've said keep the manager, we'd all be talking about finishing 8th with a negative goal difference. Mad what a one off cup game can do to people. For the record, I've been Ten Hag in all the way through. At least my poor judgment is consistent 😌
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Post by Karma on May 27, 2024 10:12:23 GMT
I know you can't compare, and this has been repeated over and over, but SAF finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th and then 6th in his first few years at United before kicking on. That's three successive seasons out of the top 4 after having finished top 4 for 5 seasons before he arrived. Convinced that 75% of the contemporary fanbase would have sacked Fergie, maybe more. I remember hearing a similar argument with Ole comparing his management to that of Fergie. Completely different era . Fergie was a one off. Madness trying to recreate that.
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Post by DedRevil on May 27, 2024 10:13:59 GMT
IF we'd have lost yesterday as expected, hardly anyone would've said keep the manager, we'd all be talking about finishing 8th with a negative goal difference. Mad what a one off cup game can do to people. For the record, I've been Ten Hag in all the way through. At least my poor judgment is consistent 😌 I hope you're right and I'm wrong mate tbf, just don't see it.
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Post by Stretty on May 27, 2024 10:15:52 GMT
I know you can't compare, and this has been repeated over and over, but SAF finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th and then 6th in his first few years at United before kicking on. That's three successive seasons out of the top 4 after having finished top 4 for 5 seasons before he arrived. Convinced that 75% of the contemporary fanbase would have sacked Fergie, maybe more. Which is exactly what you are doing. I can’t remember Fergie being hammered 7-0 at the scouse 4-0 at palace etc.etc.or being this chaotic throughout the season(even in the first 4 years). Ole would probably set us up exactly the same achieved a similar result on Saturday as ten hag did. On Friday 90% rightly wanted him sacked after a car crash of a season but one good result in a cup final later let’s give him another season. We have to judge the manager on our entire season which has basically been shit.
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Post by Stretty on May 27, 2024 10:19:05 GMT
For the record, I've been Ten Hag in all the way through. At least my poor judgment is consistent 😌 I hope you're right and I'm wrong mate tbf, just don't see it.same here. If they stick with ETH I will fully back him and will gladly have my criticisms shoved down my throat.
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Post by DedRevil on May 27, 2024 10:19:23 GMT
I know you can't compare, and this has been repeated over and over, but SAF finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th and then 6th in his first few years at United before kicking on. That's three successive seasons out of the top 4 after having finished top 4 for 5 seasons before he arrived. Convinced that 75% of the contemporary fanbase would have sacked Fergie, maybe more. Which is exactly what you are doing. I can’t remember Fergie being hammered 7-0 at the scouse 4-0 at palace etc.etc.or being this chaotic throughout the season(even in the first 4 years). Ole would probably set us up exactly the same achieved a similar result on Saturday as ten hag did. On Friday 90% rightly wanted him sacked after a car crash of a season but one good result in a cup final later let’s give him another season. We have to judge the manager on our entire season which has basically been shit.Exactly, don't let one game make you forget all the times you turned it off at half time, or didn't even bother to watch the game.
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Post by Stretty on May 27, 2024 10:20:52 GMT
I know you can't compare, and this has been repeated over and over, but SAF finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th and then 6th in his first few years at United before kicking on. That's three successive seasons out of the top 4 after having finished top 4 for 5 seasons before he arrived. Convinced that 75% of the contemporary fanbase would have sacked Fergie, maybe more. I remember hearing a similar argument with Ole comparing his management to that of Fergie. Completely different era . Fergie was a one off. Madness trying to recreate that. Our fanbase are the worlds worse for sentiment.
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Post by caino on May 27, 2024 10:28:18 GMT
IF we'd have lost yesterday as expected, hardly anyone would've said keep the manager, we'd all be talking about finishing 8th with a negative goal difference. Mad what a one off cup game can do to people. its not a one off cup game. its 2 trophies in 2 years. beating Liverpool and City along the way.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on May 27, 2024 10:31:55 GMT
I know you can't compare, and this has been repeated over and over, but SAF finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th and then 6th in his first few years at United before kicking on. That's three successive seasons out of the top 4 after having finished top 4 for 5 seasons before he arrived. Convinced that 75% of the contemporary fanbase would have sacked Fergie, maybe more. I remember hearing a similar argument with Ole comparing his management to that of Fergie. Completely different era . Fergie was a one off. Madness trying to recreate that. Is it madness, or is the goal not to try and back a manager through bad times in the hope he gets it right? I don't completely understand your counter-points, but happy to leave it there (not the first time!)
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Post by DedRevil on May 27, 2024 10:32:08 GMT
IF we'd have lost yesterday as expected, hardly anyone would've said keep the manager, we'd all be talking about finishing 8th with a negative goal difference. Mad what a one off cup game can do to people. its not a one off cup game. its 2 trophies in 2 years. beating Liverpool and City along the way. And getting absolutely slapped by both those teams in the league
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Post by Karma on May 27, 2024 10:32:38 GMT
I remember hearing a similar argument with Ole comparing his management to that of Fergie. Completely different era . Fergie was a one off. Madness trying to recreate that. Our fanbase are the worlds worse for sentiment. Probably how the Glazers got away with Ole as long as they did. They worked our fans out.
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Post by safariRed on May 27, 2024 10:35:23 GMT
I’ve been very much along the lines of replacing him for the last few weeks and even in the immediate aftermath of the FA Cup win, I was quietly thinking that it was still time for a change. But I’ll say this. With all the pressure he’s been under the last couple of weeks, he has never appeared more confident. Maybe he knows he’s got nothing to lose. The speech on the pitch after Newcastle seemed a bit cringey at the time, but now on reflection, he’s effectively given his team talk for the cup final in public. Before that, he came and wrestled Bruno away from media to join the group for his speech. Some of the players will have taken something from that. Looks clever now. Then onto Brighton where he tested his false 9 system ahead of the cup final. Could’ve really turned up and wanked that game off, but he used it to have a look at his lineup for the weekend after. We probably all questioned it, but like the speech, it now looks smart. All that shit came out in the days before Wembley. He responded with an interview for the Dutch press that was bullish. We all know what happened in the game itself. Following that he came on TV and challenged Shearer, saying pundits have been unfair on him and the team. Shearer shat himself. He moved onto ITV and although he had fun with Roy Keane, he still told Roy in no uncertain terms that he himself had struggled with management. The players clearly haven’t all given up on him. He shared a few minutes with Luke Shaw after the game as well as the youngsters he’s brought through. Martinez lifted him up at the final whistle. Jonny Evans demanded the trophy be passed down the line to the manager before anyone else got a go. His final salvo was in the press conference where he’s said, whatever happens here I’ll just go somewhere else and win trophies because that’s what I do. We’ve not seen enough of this bloke over the last two years. Too reserved, too respectful. He may have waited too long to show this side of his personality. Regardless of how it plays out now, fair play to him. Two trophies in two years is the closest thing we’ve had to sustained “success” since Sir Alex left. Well Said! The 5 years we went without a trophy is clearly lost on some here..
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