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Post by DriftingRedDevil on Dec 17, 2006 22:44:13 GMT
I agree aussie, we just need to put this game behind us and move on to Villa.
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Post by danishred on Dec 17, 2006 22:59:22 GMT
at least villa are in a mini-slump...thinking we can put them deeper into that slump
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SuperVidic
United Reserve Player
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Posts: 312
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Post by SuperVidic on Dec 18, 2006 1:23:14 GMT
Heinze has been injured but for my part he has always delivered and wasn't that bad today, compaired to other players. Before you single out someone for not giving 100% you shouldn't forget Ronaldo does fuck all when it comes to defending.
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Post by Red Yank on Dec 18, 2006 2:46:48 GMT
I’m not going to bother reading the replies in this thread, not because I’m being rude, far from it, but because from what I’ve been told so far, a lot of people are blaming Heinze’ love for his Country on the defeat today, which I find pretty ridiculous. Considering the circumstances, what he’s been through, he played his heart out today. Heading away everything he could. Ok he didn’t have a blinder but who did? We lost because West Ham scored and we didn’t. We were all over them statistic wise, but who cares about statistics? Not me. Its goals that count and we were unable to score, simple as. If we’re going as low as singling out an individual, why not start with Rooney, or Giggs? They struggled to make an impact on the game. Or how about Rio and his lack of concentration on more than one occasion, Carrick for not taking control of the midfield, or Scholes for not tracking Reo-Cokers run? If blaming an individual makes people feel better then go right ahead but football is a team game, we win as a team and we lose as a team and today we just simply weren’t good enough in front of goal. #thumb# A lot went wrong today and why no one saw Reo-Coker coming is beyond me. The whole team looked flat at creating any really good opportunities. A shame we blew the lead we had, now we really can't afford to lose. |
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lauralou
United Reserve Player
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Post by lauralou on Dec 18, 2006 9:52:35 GMT
disappointing but not devastating. utd frustrate me.. this is the kinda things theyve done for years. but west ham are no mugs.. n having a new manager often does change things and inspire teams to do well.. but dayam we played so much better than they did, and we should have put at least one of those away. rooney needs to get on his game.. and fast!
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Post by Stew on Dec 18, 2006 11:22:03 GMT
We're going to have games like yesterdays in a long league campaign. Beat Villa next week, then We have Wigan and Reading at Home. That'll put us back on track before going up to the Barcodes.
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Post by gavinm2 on Dec 18, 2006 12:52:29 GMT
To me we never looked like winning yesterday - even from the start...
Too many stray passes, missed chances and slack play. The HAMMERS wanted it more than us (as did Dynamo Chelski at the toffess!) that what pissed me off!
You can take a defeat on the chin - if you at least looked decent - to me we weren't!
We had no one who looked like they could take the game by the scruff of the neck and dictate it. Scholesy and Giggs were off colour, AND Ron needed bigger goals!
Best thing for me was Carrick getting stuck in, down on the deck and getting dirty! well done lad!
Would never blame any individual when the whole unit itself was shite!
Roll on Villa, Xmas etc.. and some more points...
There will be plenty of twists and turns yet...
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tom
United Bench Warmer
100%
To alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all life's problems."
Posts: 689
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Post by tom on Dec 18, 2006 15:28:44 GMT
Heinze has been injured but for my part he has always delivered and wasn't that bad today, compaired to other players. Before you single out someone for not giving 100% you shouldn't forget Ronaldo does fuck all when it comes to defending.[/quote Ronaldo isnt there to defend! you dont ask a player like him to defend, you use him where he makes things happen, you dont see the wide men at barca tracking back, we are top scorers because we allow our forwrds to save there energy for where it matters, its our style and always has been, we look for our defenders to defend, saying all that i thought heinze was no worse than any others and cant understand the criticism |
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Post by Busby Boy on Dec 18, 2006 17:38:42 GMT
Agree with you there Tom. It's good to see him tracking back sometimes but he's not there to do that, he was our best player yesterday.
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SuperVidic
United Reserve Player
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Posts: 312
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Post by SuperVidic on Dec 18, 2006 19:09:50 GMT
Heinze has been injured but for my part he has always delivered and wasn't that bad today, compaired to other players. Before you single out someone for not giving 100% you shouldn't forget Ronaldo does fuck all when it comes to defending.[/quote Ronaldo isnt there to defend! you dont ask a player like him to defend, you use him where he makes things happen, you dont see the wide men at barca tracking back, we are top scorers because we allow our forwrds to save there energy for where it matters, its our style and always has been, we look for our defenders to defend, saying all that i thought heinze was no worse than any others and cant understand the criticism I understand that but sometimes he doesn't bother helping Nev defend, NB vs Chelsea, and Carrick/Scholes have to help Nev which then leaves us weak in the midfield, but Giggs on the other hand backtracks more and helps LB or switches places with the midfielders if they go to help LB something Ronaldo isn't too keen on doing. I just pointed this out because people were complaining over Heinze not giving 100% and questioning his loyalty, and I think its wrong to be complaing over Heinze yet say nothing about Ronaldo. |
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Post by missunited on Dec 18, 2006 19:36:58 GMT
Heinze has been injured but for my part he has always delivered and wasn't that bad today, compaired to other players. Before you single out someone for not giving 100% you shouldn't forget Ronaldo does fuck all when it comes to defending.[/quote Ronaldo isnt there to defend! you dont ask a player like him to defend, you use him where he makes things happen, you dont see the wide men at barca tracking back, we are top scorers because we allow our forwrds to save there energy for where it matters, its our style and always has been, we look for our defenders to defend, saying all that i thought heinze was no worse than any others and cant understand the criticism I understand that but sometimes he doesn't bother helping Nev defend, NB vs Chelsea, and Carrick/Scholes have to help Nev which then leaves us weak in the midfield, but Giggs on the other hand backtracks more and helps LB or switches places with the midfielders if they go to help LB something Ronaldo isn't too keen on doing. I just pointed this out because people were complaining over Heinze not giving 100% and questioning his loyalty, and I think its wrong to be complaing over Heinze yet say nothing about Ronaldo. Ronaldo isn't a defensively minded player though. Giggs is much older, he's been at united for longer and maybe he feels that it's part of his responsibilities to help out at the back. Ronaldo was one of the few players yesterday who put up a fight and wanted to win, and althought I agree that Heinze should not get blamed for the bad result yesterday, that does not mean the blame should be shifted to a forward going player who not only isn't but SHOULD NOT be defensive. If all our strikers and midfielders were to be defensive we would never score and it'd tire them out. Players have spesific roles to play, if they don't stick to those roles it'll be like a bunch of kids playing in the park on a sunday running all over the place. Too harsh? |
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Post by Rais.n.Hell on Dec 18, 2006 20:14:18 GMT
I left right after the game because I was too pissed, upset and confused to discuss anything. Pissed by the way we played, upset because we lost, confused because I could not believe that it was us down there playing like a bunch of 3rd class football club from Antartica!! Now I get back after 24 hrs and see that Heinze's love for the club, and Ronnie's defensive capabilities being called into question. Adam is right when he says that Heinze's performance has been dismal throughout the season. But mate, lets not call his love for the club into question. That has nothing to do with this. The reason we lost was because all the players on the field were playing horrible. We didn't pass the ball properly, we didn't attack as much from the wings, tried to find holes in the oppositions defense where they weren't any, had poor control over the ball and the pace of the game. Everytime we had the ball in the mid-field we tried to cut in through the middle, where the defense is the strongest. There were atleast 2-3 West Ham player on our player with the ball when it came to the mid field. The performance all the players was embarrassing! VDS made some fantastic saves, but he made a mistake during the strike that lost us the match, he dove even before the ball was passed back to Reo-Coker. No one checked Reo either. You wanna know who you have to blame? FIRST TEAM OF MANCHESTER UNITED F.C. The whole team!! no energy, no chemistry, chances weren't cashed in on, Saha, Ronnie, Wazza, all had chances, many of them easy ones, and we didnt score. I am ashamed today! This was one of the most important game. But I have faith, we will bounce back and win this Trophy. It belongs at the Old Trafford!! WE WILL NEVER DIE!!!! As for Ronnie's defensive responsibilities, yes he could have helped but Sil has already explained this below so I am not gonna blabber on any more. Ronaldo isn't a defensively minded player though. Giggs is much older, he's been at united for longer and maybe he feels that it's part of his responsibilities to help out at the back. Ronaldo was one of the few players yesterday who put up a fight and wanted to win, and althought I agree that Heinze should not get blamed for the bad result yesterday, that does not mean the blame should be shifted to a forward going player who not only isn't but SHOULD NOT be defensive. If all our strikers and midfielders were to be defensive we would never score and it'd tire them out. Players have spesific roles to play, if they don't stick to those roles it'll be like a bunch of kids playing in the park on a sunday running all over the place. Too harsh? No not at all. Right on target and lets to forget, to get all players in defense mode will make us like Chutski, boring football and no style! |
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Post by Stew on Dec 18, 2006 20:29:01 GMT
Quote/
Ronaldo isn't a defensively minded player though. Giggs is much older, he's been at united for longer and maybe he feels that it's part of his responsibilities to help out at the back.
Ryan Giggs has been helping his full-back out defensively pretty much since the start of his career. However, no wide player did this to the extent that Beckham did that I can remember and I'm been supporting Utd since the seventies. I know Becks was more of a right mid than a winger but I don't think his covering back affected his ability to hurt teams at the other end too much. It certainly didn't make us a defensive team when he was in his prime.
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tom
United Bench Warmer
100%
To alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all life's problems."
Posts: 689
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Post by tom on Dec 18, 2006 21:16:08 GMT
Ronaldo helps the defense out plenty, he picks the ball up in his own half every game and travels half the lenth of the pitch to relieve pressure.
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Post by missunited on Dec 18, 2006 21:17:24 GMT
Beckham and Ronaldo aren't similar players though. Becks was a good player, and his free kicks deadly, but first he would never get half the chances he had if it wasn't for the partnership that him and Gary had together on the right, nor does he or ever did have the capabilities that Ronaldo did. We don't need the entire team to go back to defend every time, if we did than we would have a lot bigger problems than letting in one goal against West Ham away.
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