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Post by jimbonda on Sept 9, 2012 16:57:38 GMT
don't forget you can play jones in midfield, since you claim a midfielder is what he is.
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Post by Bestie on Sept 9, 2012 17:17:42 GMT
My point is, what Carrick can do and what he is exceptionally good at, isn't what we require. He doesn't fit the style of football we want to play. Too slow, too ponderous. So he has got to go. wozers, this is a revelation. you really are sulking about berba It is unfortunate that what Carrick "lacks" in our midfield is very similar to the "failings" of Berbatov. I did use the same rhetoric for badness though. tell ya what would be interesting. if i could ask you to play gaffer for a minute. i know you are happy with who we have signed so they are a given. on top of that tiote is available, you have the funds etc, a player you've talked about as the player we need. you don't have to sell berbo, you can field tunnicliffe, blah blah blah. what's your best team? don't forget you can play jones in midfield, since you claim a midfielder is what he is. I said Tiote is a player we could use, not the player we need. His sort, not necessarily him. Berbatov is gone, so don't know why he's suddenly in the mix. You seem to be confusing my irritation at the lack of balls in our team with a strop about Berbatov leaving. Also, is everybody fit?
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Post by jimbonda on Sept 9, 2012 17:31:42 GMT
yeah assume everyones fit, i'm curious because you champion a good few players who don't play
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Post by Bestie on Sept 9, 2012 17:44:11 GMT
1st XI: Lindegaard Rafael -- Evans -- Vidic -- Evra Valencia -- Jones -- Cleverley -- Young Kagawa Robin van Persie/Rooney Bench: De Gea, Rio, Tunnicliffe, Scholes, Nani, Welbeck, Rooney/van Persie - depending on form. Evans can play along the back-line if there are injuries, likewise Jones if we absolutely have to. Hence only Rio on the bench. We haven't had a chance to see Buttner play, so that's why Evra is in as left-back.
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Post by jimbonda on Sept 9, 2012 17:52:48 GMT
so you've left out berba, after spending an age criticising fergie for leaving out berba...
i'm really not keen on a few of your selections and omissions, that's the world of differing opinions of course.
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Post by Stew on Sept 9, 2012 17:56:11 GMT
Lindegaard ahead of DeGea? Sorry Bestie, stopped reading after that.
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Sept 9, 2012 18:10:52 GMT
Lindegaard ahead of DeGea? Sorry Bestie, stopped reading after that. Seconded
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Post by jimbonda on Sept 9, 2012 18:24:58 GMT
yeah me too, to be fair i think besto has said a couple of times he sees de Gea as the future number 1 but lindegaard as currently the better all-rounder.
it was those midfield and forward selections i'm interested in
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Post by Bestie on Sept 9, 2012 18:32:06 GMT
so you've left out berba, after spending an age criticising fergie for leaving out berba... i'm really not keen on a few of your selections and omissions, that's the world of differing opinions of course. Berba's at Fulham now. You can speculate about players we might sign and where they would play, but I don't see any point in doing a team with Berbatov in it now. Lindegaard ahead of DeGea? Sorry Bestie, stopped reading after that. Jim said it, De Gea is going to be unbelievable one day, and can be very good for us now. I just trust Lindegaard to deal with crosses and high balls/physicality a lot better. He also has more of an imposing presence both on opposition teams, and on our back four. I can't envisage De Gea giving Rafael, Evra or Rio a bollocking if they screw up and he has to make a save. I saw Lindegaard giving Evra a Schmikes glare against Southampton when Puncheon got through easily, on the other hand.
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Post by tommyred on Sept 9, 2012 18:36:08 GMT
Did you not see Lindegaard against Southampton? His awful kicking constantly put us under pressure. His mistakes may not be as high profile or obvious as the very few mistakes De Gea makes nowadays but they can be just as costly. We would have a lot more possession against Saints if De Gea was in nets because he doesn't constantly kick the ball out of play.
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Post by jimbonda on Sept 9, 2012 18:39:40 GMT
De Gea's kicking is top class
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Post by Stew on Sept 9, 2012 19:18:27 GMT
Shot stopping- DeGea>>>>>>Lindegaard Crosses>>Lindegaard>>De Gea Distibution-DeGea>(times approx 1000) Lindegaard
Dishing out bollockings isn't a category when it comes to judging keepers. How vocal was VDS? Any others i've left out? Reflexs-DeGea. No way is Lindegaard better all round. If that is what Bestie thinks then I'm sorry but no chance. He's better at coming for crosses. The end.
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Post by Bestie on Sept 9, 2012 19:45:50 GMT
Edwin wasn't the most vocal but he had a calmness and confidence that transmitted itself to the defence in front of him. There was an inherent trust/respect thing that he had with the back four.
Assuredness/command of your box, surely, can be considered as a criteria? Look at Schmeichel or Cech before the head injury, or Buffon. They have this "thing" about them that just exude 'we're alright lads, clean sheet it is'. And for me, I get more of a good feeling from Lindegaard. He has a far greater presence in the box. The 'tangible' goalkeeping skills, the actual footballing/technical ability, of course De Gea is ahead. But it's the stuff you can't put into stats like the sense of calm, organisation of his defence that I feel Lindegaard exceeds DDG.
Personally, I think it's just something that comes with time and experience. The only reason Lindegaard is better in the category than De Gea is that he's 27 and the latter is barely past U-21 age. If DDG develops that side of his game, by the time he's 27 he'll be the best 'keeper on the planet, pretty much without question.
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Post by jimbonda on Sept 9, 2012 21:50:06 GMT
i've said david platt de Gea all along, with apologies to linders his injury last season was music to my ears. i knew de Gea would benefit from being assured a place for a stretch of games and would give us a response.
i reckon best is right that an age gap of 5 or 6 years between them, especially as DDG is only 21, definitely gives lindegaard something over him, i'm personally not sure what. but you've got to weigh that against the fact that de Gea is better already in most departments.
only question for me would be does it benefit de Gea to be left out of a game? if so fine, if not and he's a hardy lad then play him even after a mistake or against a team who will try and bully him.
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Post by mocthezuma on Sept 10, 2012 0:59:09 GMT
The fact that we're having this discussion is a good thing. We have two very good goalkeepers.
I think Lindegaard is currently the best of the two purely on security. He hasn't made a big mistake for us yet and De Gea has made a handful.
And Ben Arfa is far from good enough for us. And his personality is a big issue. Thanks, but no thanks.
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