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Post by jimbonda on Mar 7, 2013 11:09:17 GMT
Thing about Rooney is - he had the potential to be a game changer type of player, but I think he didn't quite / hasn't reached that potential yet. Yes, he CAN change a game every now and again - especially when he's on hot form - but otherwise, his first touch, speed and dribbling skills aren't quite up there to be considered as such. waynes a total footballer, he can do anything with a ball and play anywhere. you can't claim he lacks this stuff per se. when his touch has gone it's a symptom of something else. ferguson has mentioned his fitness a lot of times and that's sounding increasingly like an issue. waz was obviously a lad who matured early and he doesn't have a typical athletes body. mentally i don't think he's right up there either for a bunch of reasons. van Persie seems to be able to carry the burden of being the main guy better than waz ever did. i'm not sure the writings on the wall like royston claimed on TV but for the first time i do have my doubts about his future. we'll find out in the summer either way when he enters his final 2 years.. |
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Post by Dan United on Mar 7, 2013 11:31:12 GMT
Like I've always said, my feelings on any sale will be determined by the calibre of player we bring in to replace him. We can't just sell him and do nothing. He scores big goals, he scores out of nothing, he drives the team on, he sacrifices himself for the team and he creates goals. He is also capable of a bit of magic, though increasingly rarely.
But the fitness and touch are issues that have convinced me that maybe a sale this summer wouldn't be a bad thing. His physique and development suggest to me that he has already had his peak years. I don't think his frame could sustain him at the highest level for many more years, so this could be our last chance to get a sizeable fee for him. I would hate to see him go for the prices being quoted in the papers today. If he is sold for less than Andy Carroll it would be a travesty, regardless of the different circumstances.
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Post by jimbonda on Mar 7, 2013 11:42:05 GMT
Like I've always said, my feelings on any sale will be determined by the calibre of player we bring in to replace him. the lewandovski rumours have never gone away have they. bale would soften the rooney blow. don't wanna speculate too much further really. waynes been scoring a lot of goals recently, and if he continues in that vein for the rest of the season it could settle everything down. we'll see |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Mar 7, 2013 11:45:11 GMT
Agreed jim, though with Dzeko to Dortmund apparently a done deal I wouldn;t be surprised to see Lewa head to City. To their bench I mean.
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Post by alt on Mar 7, 2013 11:55:00 GMT
I want him to stay, still think he's a class act on the pitch and should be hitting his peak now, but there is concerns. He cannot stay fit over a season, every season he's been here he's missed a month or more with injuries. When he comes back he always takes half a dozen games to finally look sharp again, that's half a dozen games we can't afford if it comes in April and includes title deciding games and Champions League semi finals. For a player desperate to play in the hole as the main link up, his all round game is no where near good enough. Yes he's good in that area, but not great. Next game count how many times he needlessly gives the ball away, then compare it to how many times someone like Cantona or Bergkamp lost possession in a game. His strength is about 50% of what it was, when he was 18 defenders bounced off him, watch clips of Euro 2004 and see what he used to be like. Now they shrug him off the ball with ease. Maybe he's suffering from burn out? We've seen a lot of players who looked superb at 17,18 pretty much done before they hit 30. Owen, Fowler, Cole. Giggs of course not, but he is a freak. Pretty much this. To be honest I don't think he's at the level he was two or three years ago, this maybe down to form and fitness but I can't see him peaking anytime soon like he should be, if anything that's already passed. I think he can still perform at a top level at times but I don't think he's ever really achieved the greatness people expected him to when he was 17. He's played a hell of a lot of football since he was 17 and had huge expectations to live up to, to which most of he has. Maybe 10 years of playing week in week out is finally taking its toll, wouldn't surprise me if we never see his fitness like it was a few years ago, hence why Fergie's had enough and thinks now's the time to get a decent return whilst we still can. Furthermore, I really want a team that gels with each other... This is from the start of the thread and it's one of the main reasons why part of me wouldn't be overly distraught if he left. I think Rooney has always been best when up top, hes a great finisher and always has been. Problem is though I don't think he likes playing that position and loves to play deeper in the number 10 role. Dazjoe summed it up perfectly; This is the issue for me. We've played some decent football this season but I don't think we've ever played really good attractive football. Chelsea and Man City both have at times, then you've got the obvious ones like RM, Bayern and Dortmund. Notice they all have a world class player in that position, Mata, Silva, Ozil, Kroos, Gotze.. all of them players are the creative hubs of their respective teams, and for me, Rooney doesn't match up to any of them in that position. World class number 9, but certainly not number 10. Kagawa can be that player for us, he showed us a small glimpse of it at the weekend and will only get better, but until he can get a prolonged run in the team in his primary position then that's probably never going to properly happen. If we lined up next year something like this then I'd be a little bit excited; Nani/Zaha Kagawa Rodriguez RvP |
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Post by jimbonda on Mar 7, 2013 12:06:51 GMT
one things for sure, there's few bigger stories in football than fergie moving on a player.
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Post by RedDevil'sAdvocate on Mar 7, 2013 12:08:11 GMT
Said it a while ago, I won't be upset if we sell him if that means we bring in two players of real quality and magic. Since he threatened to leave United for City I look at him as a highly paid employee of the club. He can score and create goals and has an odd moment of brilliance but for a player of his wages he should be doing that for most of the time like the really top players do. He tends to miss a month or two in a season beacause of injuries, has few off weeks and he's quite good for the rest. We have the right to demand and expect more from "the best player in the team".
At his age it's safe to say he won't get any better and personally i think he hasn't developed into a player we hoped he would when he scored a hat trick in his CL debut. He was supporting cast for Ronaldo and since he left Rooney hasn't won us anything really (Nani, Berbs and our defence won us the No 19). This summer will be interesting - either he leaves or he'll be here for the rest of his career - it's hard to decide which one is better for the club....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 12:12:03 GMT
Wayne Rooney has been magnificent for us. One of my fav players of all time. However I think the UTD hierarchy had decided to move him on this summer quite a while ago. When he is injured it takes him longer than normal to get his sharpness back . This will only get worse with age. He has 2 years left on his contract so he will never be more sellable than he is now. Lewandowski's name refuses to go away so all things considered there could be something concrete to all of this. However I have added 2 + 2 before and got 5, I.E Nasri!
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Post by mightyez on Mar 7, 2013 12:14:31 GMT
for one i dont think he is going anywhere however if he does then lets consider reasons as to why.
1. fitness issues occur with him alot
2. he is 27 and has 2 years left, if he statys with us or goes elsewhere it will be his last big contract, if rumours are true he is on 250k or lets say 200k, he will want a contract that tops that, and to be honest he is not worth it.
i wouldnt want to see him go, but bale coming in or a ronaldo return would definetly help.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 12:16:49 GMT
Lets all be clear here, Wayne Rooney has been a magnificent player for Manchester United. Red DevilsAdvovated im not having the line that rooney hasn't really won us anything. Come on.
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Post by RedDevil'sAdvocate on Mar 7, 2013 12:25:56 GMT
I am not saying he hasn't been great player for us. I am saying he was never the main driving force for us winning the league/cup .... he was supporting Ronaldo and since he left we won one PL and that was down to other players. He did a great job as "support" but for his wages and talent he should be doing more in my opinion....
the whole I want to leave debacle still has a big influence on me when I think about rooney, that might be the reason I might not appreciate him as much as most do though...
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Post by Bestie on Mar 7, 2013 12:40:20 GMT
Rooney has never lived up to the potential he showed at 16. He hasn't the netality for it, he goes out boozing and he smokes and all.
As I have said before, a love of playing football is enough when you're breaking through and you're in your early 20's. It stops becoming enough when your game has plateaued. Rooney is a terrific player, selfless and a 100% player, his attitude on the pitch raises him but he doesn't have overall world class ability. His touch sometimes would make Heskey wince.
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Post by Stew on Mar 7, 2013 13:23:31 GMT
I could be completely wrong but in my mind Fergie's quotes on Rooney pre and post contract row have seemed different. They are more reserved since then, not forced but they don't seem as fulsome. Or am I wrong? Feel free to blow that away with quotes but it's felt that way a bit. Before the dispute I seem to remember Fergie gushing about Wayne.
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Post by SAF_Legend on Mar 7, 2013 13:47:58 GMT
Thing about Rooney is - he had the potential to be a game changer type of player, but I think he didn't quite / hasn't reached that potential yet. Yes, he CAN change a game every now and again - especially when he's on hot form - but otherwise, his first touch, speed and dribbling skills aren't quite up there to be considered as such. waynes a total footballer, he can do anything with a ball and play anywhere. you can't claim he lacks this stuff per se. when his touch has gone it's a symptom of something else. ferguson has mentioned his fitness a lot of times and that's sounding increasingly like an issue. waz was obviously a lad who matured early and he doesn't have a typical athletes body. mentally i don't think he's right up there either for a bunch of reasons. van Persie seems to be able to carry the burden of being the main guy better than waz ever did. If you read the other half of the response, you will see what I think as Rooney's best attributes. Can't agree about his first touch, speed and dribbling though - I'm not saying he's shite at it - he is good at it, but isn't excellent to be honest. Even when he's on form, when was the last time you saw him pick and control a ball like how i.e. RvP, Nani, Scholes or Giggs can do constantly? Certainly not his biggest asset, even when he's in the right frame of mind or in his best physical form. Rooney is a great player for us - make no doubt about that, but I don't particularly think those 3 attributes are his key attributes. Plus, I honestly don't think he has a problem with mentality and / or physicality to the extent it hinders these three attributes. In fact, how do you explain his high work rate with a poor mentality? You need to have a good amount of strength mentally to produce that kind of rate of work almost every match - whether his other performance was poor on that day or not. There isn't any reason or excuse as to why he hasn't "lived up to expectations" - it was just loads of over-hype, making Rooney, who is a really good player, look like he didn't reach his potential. Clubs would love to have a Rooney in their team. We can't just let him go for £30-40m as some have stated here. We'll be making a great loss. |
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Post by Bestie on Mar 7, 2013 14:27:24 GMT
I think he has a fine mentality on the pitch, but off it he isn't professional enough. Could be what jim is getting at?
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