Tom Cleverley

[wolvesred]

Watched him against arsenal today. Did nothing and was subbed. In fact my mate said he has made no assists and scored no goals for villa. We did a good thing getting rid.

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Feb 1, 2015 20:55:58 GMT ScholesEvilTwin said:

It happens. Teams can't force players to do the business on the pitch. The celebrity cult, and riches, that come with the job now mean most dont even need to be semi-decent to become stupidly rich.

Why knuckle down and work hard - a la Keane, Neville, Scholes, Cantona, etc etc - when you will still pick up the same money every week.

Cleverley's advisors had him thinking he had "made it" and needed a "brand" before he done anything other than sign a bigger contract with us.
Morrison's off-field antics are well known.


United can't force the players really. The only thing they could do would be Besties idea of incentive based contracts. But then thats no good if another club will just come along and offer them whatever they want. You just have to hope they have sound mates & good advisors around them, as well as that desire to actually want to be the best (Ronaldo is a good example of that) to point them in the right direction.

Perhaps I wasn't quite so clear. We, as in MUfC, seem poor in gettingplayers through the transition from youth to top professional since the class of 92. We seem to be living off the reputation of class 92, Fergie and our former power. Societal attitudes change continually, young people have changing ambitions and money is a major factor but other clubs seem more capable of making the transition work. 

From a dual perspective I wonder why German lads don't seem to fall into the money and agent trap like those in the PL clubs. Germany is turning over new young players like a factory and few seem to want to exploit their market value until they are fully  established. It seems to me a long term zero sum game because we cannot continue to throw serious investment away without a proper return.

[ScholesEvilTwin]

Alot of it is down to the national mentality - look at the changes in the youth system they bought in over there, country-wide, with every club agreeing to and abiding by it, for the sake of the national team and the sake of the game in the country.

Then contrast that with the British celeb & money obsessed culture. All those "inquiries" into why young British footballers are shite - and the ridiculous sums spent doing so - and their solution was St Georges Park. A facility that only those lucky enough to be selected for England will get to use.

Also, look at the amount of qualified coaches in Germany compared to here - there is alot more. Meaning nearly every village/town has access to decent coaching.

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Again I only partly agree with you. The celeb thing is very strong in Germany and youth culture is just as much into Ibiza style behaviour as in UK. There is serious unemployment among youth, broken families, poverty, and money is tight everywhere. The scouts are thriving in Germany as are the agents. Everywhere there is money potential but it's locked in with the bigger clubs. Altogether an incestuous business.

However, why don't Germans fall for the limelight. I would put it down to early education, primary school level. Most German kids have maths, languages and are capable of writing. There is a lower level of illiteracy than the UK. The kids are also encouraged early on to become independant and adult which gives them greater confidence later. By the time they get to professional level they're more complete than their English counterparts.

Another factor is the way the leagues are dominated by the large clubs. Players find a level and are accommodated rather than turfed out if they don't make the first teams. The Germans have this big feeling against wasting any talent at any level. Whereas I Think we tend to trash potential too early because of balance sheets and short term P&L accounts.