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Post by Paul on Oct 4, 2022 17:29:26 GMT
What if he finishes 6th and wins a cup or two? Does he get fired then? No that’s a chemical castration at minimum and firing squad at max. That happens when he loses his next game 😏 |
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Post by Bestie on Oct 4, 2022 19:07:55 GMT
Sack ten Hag and hire who? We all know we’re far behind city and the game arrived at the absolute worst time following a one month break. The only criticism ten Hag should be receiving is his failure to integrate Casemiro into the starting 11. Otherwise his signings this summer have all made a major difference. It’s mad that there’s even a suggestion that he should be sacked. Tuchel, Zidane, Mancini. Pick one. It doesn't take a miracle worker to dump the dross in the reserves and demand signings. Ten Hag replaced 12 players with 6. Are the replacements good? They look like it, but a modern football club isn't supposed to run its entire scouting network based on the bloke they have just appointed as manager. And we still didn't get his top target. The only thing ten Hag could have done to make up for his puppet-esque summer was a storming start when the real stuff started. Instead we have been tonked twice in eight games. We conceded six to our huge local rival FFS. Why aren't there consequences? Are people that Stockholm syndromed to the Glazers that a manager that has achieved nothing for us gets a free pass regardless of the humiliations he presides over? 3rd in the League and winning Cups would be progress. Anything else we should be getting someone else. Ten Hag should be thanking his deities for keeping his job today. What if he finishes 6th and wins a cup or two? Does he get fired then? Which Cups? League Cup and Europa Conference League then probably yes. Anything less than UEFA Cup but outside the top three is sackable really. |
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Post by Bestie on Oct 4, 2022 19:08:44 GMT
Not quite sure what everyone expected tbh. They are light years ahead of us in every aspect as a club & it showed. Having an idea beyond glammed up Ole coward counter would have been a nice start. |
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Post by GeniusCantona on Oct 4, 2022 19:45:35 GMT
Sack ten Hag and hire who? We all know we’re far behind city and the game arrived at the absolute worst time following a one month break. The only criticism ten Hag should be receiving is his failure to integrate Casemiro into the starting 11. Otherwise his signings this summer have all made a major difference. It’s mad that there’s even a suggestion that he should be sacked. Tuchel, Zidane, Mancini. Pick one. What if he finishes 6th and wins a cup or two? Does he get fired then? Which Cups? League Cup and Europa COnference League then probably yes. Anything less than UEFA Cup but outside the top three is sackable really. Zidane has said no to English football and will continue to do so. Mancini’s failure to qualify Italy for the World Cup should send alarm bells ringing. He is past his best at a club level. Tuchel is a viable alternative but Chelsea declined considerably in his last 6 months in charge and were leaking goals at the back. The question is what benefit do we get sacking ten Hag now when he hasn’t even had half a season to implement his philosophy? It is too early to make conclusions of anything so far. He inherited a broken and poorly built squad from Ole. Ten Hag’s 5 major signings do fit an overall purpose and are delivering so far. We have improved. If we’re talking about 6-3 and 4 nil defeats next season than talks of him being sacked are justified. But as of now it seems very strange and abrupt. |
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Post by viking22 on Oct 4, 2022 21:10:45 GMT
"On the day we signed him, we started to win and it's about the team," Ten Hag said. "The team is doing really well, it's not against Casemiro, it's for, in this case, Scott McTominay, he performed great in the team and then we get into a run. But I'm sure it will be important for us in the long and short-term, he will find himself in the team but it has to come in a natural way."
Gives a bit of a window into Erik's thinking. Well Scotty played like crap so hopefully Casemiro starts next game.
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Post by Karma on Oct 4, 2022 23:14:08 GMT
"On the day we signed him, we started to win and it's about the team," Ten Hag said. "The team is doing really well, it's not against Casemiro, it's for, in this case, Scott McTominay, he performed great in the team and then we get into a run. But I'm sure it will be important for us in the long and short-term, he will find himself in the team but it has to come in a natural way." Gives a bit of a window into Erik's thinking. Well Scotty played like crap so hopefully Casemiro starts next game. He’s toast if he continues to start McTominay . |
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Post by Stew on Oct 5, 2022 6:07:38 GMT
Sack ten Hag and hire who? We all know we’re far behind city and the game arrived at the absolute worst time following a one month break. The only criticism ten Hag should be receiving is his failure to integrate Casemiro into the starting 11. Otherwise his signings this summer have all made a major difference. It’s mad that there’s even a suggestion that he should be sacked. Tuchel, Zidane, Mancini. Pick one. What if he finishes 6th and wins a cup or two? Does he get fired then? Which Cups? League Cup and Europa Conference League then probably yes. Anything less than UEFA Cup but outside the top three is sackable really. Jose finished 6th and won 2 cups. I don’t recall anyone calling for his head back then. Why should it be different for Ten Hag? |
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Post by juanveron on Oct 5, 2022 7:45:59 GMT
I mostly want to see good football. We aren’t winning the league this year and most likely not next year as well (unless we change owners and spend the necessary 300 million on the right players), top 4 is more of a Glazer trophy (although this summer I actually think it hurt us not having CL football, which sort of changes how much I care about top 4 finish), and yes winning cups would be wonderful to end the trophy draught.
I definitely am not anywhere close to calling for ETH’s head. He needs time and resources. Apart from not playing Casemiro, and maybe the obsession with FDJ in the summer, I’ve liked pretty much all that I have seen so far.
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Post by viking22 on Oct 5, 2022 8:39:29 GMT
If Ten Hag can equal Jose's achievement of Europa League and a domestic cup that keeps him in a job. Europa League gets us CL football. A domestic cup proves he can succeed domestically and win trophies.
I do not consider the Europa League a trophy to boast about. It is a second string competition that by its nature excludes you from facing the best teams in England and the best teams in Europe. At least with the domestic cups you will face at least some of the best teams in England.
And we shouldn't set the bar too low for Ten Hag. It is worth remembering that Ole finished top 4 in each of his 3 full seasons at the club, reached 4 semi-finals and 1 final. And that was with a team that was much worse than this one.
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Post by mightyez on Oct 5, 2022 9:49:43 GMT
I think a defined style of play is massively crucial. I have seen glimpses of intricate passes which is massively important.
In Pep and Klopp's first seasons, you could see what they were trying to do albeit they didn't have the players but they stuck at it and in the end we have seen the outcome in terms of style.
ETH needs to stick at it, board needs to back him and get out what is not right and get in what fits.
A trophy this season cannot be underestimated but i also think based on how teams are playing this season a top 4 finish is realistic and should be an aim. No one is saying it's a trophy, but it's al about steps and progress.
One thing is for sure though, I think the manager is one that doesn't forget, he won't forget poor performances (Maguire), he won't play you if he believes you aren't fit for purpose (AWB, Donny to name some).
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Post by Bestie on Oct 5, 2022 13:26:51 GMT
Tuchel, Zidane, Mancini. Pick one. Which Cups? League Cup and Europa Conference League then probably yes. Anything less than UEFA Cup but outside the top three is sackable really. Jose finished 6th and won 2 cups. I don’t recall anyone calling for his head back then. Why should it be different for Ten Hag? Mourinho didn't spout mountains of horse manure about how great the squad he had was. In fact he was quite clear we needed more signings. Turn the question around- are you going to say ten Hag should be sacked if he doesn't match Jose's first season? Although I think I wasn't clear. UEFA Cup is the highest 'value' trophy we can win this season. I meant if we don't win it *and* finish outside the top three then we should be looking at whether ten Hag should stay. |
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Post by Stew on Oct 5, 2022 15:02:42 GMT
Jose finished 6th and won 2 cups. I don’t recall anyone calling for his head back then. Why should it be different for Ten Hag? Mourinho didn't spout mountains of horse manure about how great the squad he had was. In fact he was quite clear we needed more signings. Turn the question around- are you going to say ten Hag should be sacked if he doesn't match Jose's first season? Although I think I wasn't clear. UEFA Cup is the highest 'value' trophy we can win this season. I meant if we don't win it *and* finish outside the top three then we should be looking at whether ten Hag should stay. That makes more sense. |
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Post by viking22 on Oct 6, 2022 9:46:25 GMT
"I said already before, it had nothing to do with Casemiro, it was all to do with Scott [McTominay] because when you look at Brentford, he wasn't in the team, and we lose. Then on the day that Casemiro signed, we won. We play six games and we win five. And in five games, [McTominay] played. In one game he didn't, and that was against [Real] Sociedad. So for me, that was logical because it's competition in the team. So, for me, it wasn't a choice. He performed really well, he developed really well and it had nothing to do with Casemiro. But I'm sure Casemiro will play a really important role"
Erik really starting to dig his heels in. Well Scotty played against Manchester City and we got hit for six. Hopefully that will end his bizarre line of reasoning before it screws up our chances of finishing top 4. And last season Scotty was ever present and we finished 6th and got humiliated time and time again. Sticking with an average player just because he is having a good run of form while a world class player who has won dozens of trophies warms the bench against a team as good as City makes no sense to me.
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Post by johnboy14 on Oct 6, 2022 12:45:26 GMT
"I said already before, it had nothing to do with Casemiro, it was all to do with Scott [McTominay] because when you look at Brentford, he wasn't in the team, and we lose. Then on the day that Casemiro signed, we won. We play six games and we win five. And in five games, [McTominay] played. In one game he didn't, and that was against [Real] Sociedad. So for me, that was logical because it's competition in the team. So, for me, it wasn't a choice. He performed really well, he developed really well and it had nothing to do with Casemiro. But I'm sure Casemiro will play a really important role" Erik really starting to dig his heels in. Well Scotty played against Manchester City and we got hit for six. Hopefully that will end his bizarre line of reasoning before it screws up our chances of finishing top 4. And last season Scotty was ever present and we finished 6th and got humiliated time and time again. Sticking with an average player just because he is having a good run of form while a world class player who has won dozens of trophies warms the bench against a team as good as City makes no sense to me. We don’t know if that was his reasoning but I suspect it is. I expected Casemiro to walk right into the team at the first opportunity just like Anthony or Martinez. Someone who's played an instrumental part in 5 CL trophies shouldn't really have to prove himself before getting a game. There could be other reasons for his omission but the fitness one doesn't wash |
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Post by viking22 on Oct 6, 2022 14:10:50 GMT
I think Erik's wording which I have in highlights is crystal clear. Combination of not wanting to change a winning team and trying to make a point that reputation doesn't matter and if you play well you will keep your place. It is a little naïve. Firstly if you never change a winning team then it will stop winning. Secondly, form is temporary while class is permanent and we all know when Scotty has a bad game he is terrible and he'd get found out against top class opposition. Our winning streak wasn't that impressive. Southampton and Leicester are crap this season. Liverpool's midfield was Henderson Milner and Elliot FFS. Arsenal are lightweight in midfield. And I think even with Scotty playing Brentford would have smashed us.
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